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Redundant Skill Prereqs... Why?
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Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#1 - 2011-10-15 23:12:55 UTC
I was noticing that several ships have skill prereqs that are redundant and silly.

For example, the Thantos requires:

Capital Ships I
Gallente Carrier I
Jump Drive Operation I

But Gallente Carrier I requires Capital Ships III. So why list Capital Ships I as a requirement? If someone has Gallente Carrier I, they certainly already have Capital Ships I. Is there a game reason for this to be listed this way?

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net
Lukriss
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-10-15 23:42:41 UTC
Because Capital Ships only affect skills that directly require it, so for the Thanatos to get the bonus, it needs to require Capital skills.

The same thing goes for Advanced Spaceship Command, which is required for the Capital skills, but does not affect the Thanatos because it's a requirement of a requirement.
Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#3 - 2011-10-16 01:02:33 UTC
So if Advanced Spaceship Command doesn't affect Capital Ships, because as far as I recall, I don't see Capital Ships with it listed as a direct requirement... what ships do Advanced Spaceship Command affect?

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-10-16 01:33:20 UTC
I remember when I wondered about this heavily too but it seems to be more in consistency of presentation.

Some skills have prerequisites that you wouldn't know about, so it shows a nested list of skills and their prerequisites.

As such, where there is the same skill at a higher level needed elsewhere, it will be shown in the tree twice.

Over time some skills have had their required level reduce, increased or flat out removed. The system in use automatically compensates for this, without a developer stopping other work to go in and tweak any presented data nor rework older code to test if it shows twice where it didn't before or testing every time info is brought up ... Et cetera.

A minor annoyance to some but there is logic to it and it does make sense.
Stormmaster Neptunius
#5 - 2011-10-16 02:21:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Stormmaster Neptunius
Crasniya wrote:
So if Advanced Spaceship Command doesn't affect Capital Ships, because as far as I recall, I don't see Capital Ships with it listed as a direct requirement... what ships do Advanced Spaceship Command affect?

Freighters are affected. And a freighter with agility bonus is much better than one without.

As for the way the requirements are listed in-game, it's all good. The sub-requirements are listed with a shift, so you can easily see which are direct and which are requirements for other required skills. Might be a bit confusing for new players until they notice this (had been confusing for me for a while).

It is also a great way to not miss training a skill in time when you plan your remaps ahead. For example, in my next remap I will have to train Energy Pulse Weapons to V in order to be able to do the Doomsday Operation in the remap after the following. If I missed that fact, I would then have to train that skill in a wrong remap or postpone both for a few years...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#6 - 2011-10-17 11:14:37 UTC
Crasniya wrote:
I was noticing that several ships have skill prereqs that are redundant and silly.

For example, the Thantos requires:

Capital Ships I
Gallente Carrier I
Jump Drive Operation I

But Gallente Carrier I requires Capital Ships III. So why list Capital Ships I as a requirement? If someone has Gallente Carrier I, they certainly already have Capital Ships I. Is there a game reason for this to be listed this way?
Because you can lose skill levels and because prerequisites to train is not the same thing as prerequisites to use.

Yes, you need Capships III to learn Carrier I, but once you have, you don't need Capships III any more. I'm not even sure you need it to train Carrier to II, since you already have lvl I (but don't quote me on that one). You could go out and get yourself podded to oblivion and lose those Capship skill levels (granted, it would be hard to do so without taking a hit to other more important skills… but this is an illustrating example anyway, so just run with it. P) and all that would happen would be that you can no longer train the Carriers skill… but you already have it, so you don't need to train it, and you don't need its prerequisites any more.

So to actually fly the Thanny, you don't need Capships III. You might have needed it along the way to get the skills, but once you actually sit in the ship, you don't need that particular level. All you need in order to undock is Capships I. If, inbetween training carriers and actually getting your Thanny, you lose a bunch of capship levels, you can still fly that ship.