These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Winter] Attack Cruisers

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#101 - 2012-09-18 16:15:21 UTC
Martin0 wrote:
The thorax need more powergrid or everyone wll just shield tank it.
NOW it need a Ancillary current router to fit electrons and a 1600, if you want to ions and a 800 you still have fitting problems, with four mids a shield tank is best.
I too would shield tank it and i hate shieldsSad



shield tank everything now a days...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Lelob
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2012-09-18 16:18:14 UTC
Thorax:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking speed
Slot layout: 5 H, 4 M (+1), 5 L, 5 turrets
Fittings: 820 PWG, 330 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(-324) / 1600(-41) / 1700(+175)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+75) / 490s(+25.25s) / 2.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 235(+55) / 0.49(-0.0658) / 11280000 / 5.2s (-0.7)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km(-2.5) / 280(+21) / 6
Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 130(-10)
Cargo capacity: 465(+200)

Everything looks good here except for this fascination CCP seems to have with giving gallente ships more structure. Sure it's "racial," but nobody gives a **** about structure tanking because there really is no such thing outside of comedy fits. If you want to change the defense on the ship, just remove more of the structure and leave the shields/armor. Seriously, these things are already very thin as it is, so reducing the shields and armor like you have here just does not make sense.
Alara IonStorm
#103 - 2012-09-18 16:18:32 UTC
cool4nd wrote:

Addionally Omen will suffer hard on capacitor, with ROF sucking cap like crazy.

I agree with this, Dmg would be better. I don't mind the 1 ACR for 1600mm Plate trade off. 37k EHP + 2 heatsinks isn't bad.

Garviel Tarrant wrote:
These things are supposed to be fast,

Stop complaining your god damn 1600´s wont fit ffs..

I would very much like to stop complaining about 1600mm Plates and if 800mm Plates were worth a warm bucket of spit I would.

Better yet give 1600mm Plate a 1500 PG Requirement so they work on Battleships only and make 800mm worth it for Cruisers / Battlecruisers the same way LSE are. Then make an XLSE with 1000PG and 250 CPU for Battleships as well.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#104 - 2012-09-18 16:19:06 UTC
With the fear of being burned alive what needs to be done is a change to the fitting needs of LSE. I do agree though that if it is tight to fit a rax with ions and a 800 plate this might need to be changed. The biggest help to everything would be to make it harder to fit LSE to sub BS ships. As they way it is now they are way to easy to fit to everything.
Alara IonStorm
#105 - 2012-09-18 16:25:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
CCP please give the Stabber a full flight of small drones and 5th gun.

If you don't people will just continue to use the Rupture and they will use the Bellicose in the kiting role you set up for the Stabber.

Nerf the speed a bit if you have to but give just it a little more Dmg please.

Also the Caracal could use some work with the Heavy Nerf.
Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
#106 - 2012-09-18 16:25:55 UTC
Lelob wrote:
Thorax:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking speed
Slot layout: 5 H, 4 M (+1), 5 L, 5 turrets
Fittings: 820 PWG, 330 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(-324) / 1600(-41) / 1700(+175)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+75) / 490s(+25.25s) / 2.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 235(+55) / 0.49(-0.0658) / 11280000 / 5.2s (-0.7)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km(-2.5) / 280(+21) / 6
Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 130(-10)
Cargo capacity: 465(+200)

Everything looks good here except for this fascination CCP seems to have with giving gallente ships more structure. Sure it's "racial," but nobody gives a **** about structure tanking because there really is no such thing outside of comedy fits. If you want to change the defense on the ship, just remove more of the structure and leave the shields/armor. Seriously, these things are already very thin as it is, so reducing the shields and armor like you have here just does not make sense.
I imagine it's to deter people from fitting nanos vs overdrives (think 'ranis) and also to give you some more EHP/time to cycle reps without buffing buffer tanks.
Aaron Greil
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#107 - 2012-09-18 16:46:04 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
CCP please give the Stabber a full flight of small drones and 5th gun.

If you don't people will just continue to use the Rupture and they will use the Bellicose or it in the kiting role you set up for the Stabber.

Nerf the speed a bit if you have to but give just it a little more Dmg please.

Also the Caracal could use some work with the Heavy Nerf.



I completely disagree. With the range bonus and the fact that TEs and TCs now increase missiles too, coupled with the speed very firmly make this a solid ship. Also, winmatards don't need another ship that outclasses everyone else. If the omen outshines the stabber just a hair in this line up, thats okay. Every race has its strong ships, not that I'm agreeing with your premise in the first place. Did you see the bellicose?

On another note, I love these changes. I'm glad they only gave drones to one ship this time, and to a ship that needed it the most. I also like the fact that they added some credence to shield thoraxes. I think gallente should have just a dash of shield fits, moreso than amarr anyway. On the same token, Armor thoraxes haven't been ruined in the process. The balance feels nice.

Also, there are a couple people whining about not being able to put battleship mods on their t1 cruisers without fitting mods. Roll

A couple recommendations-
While the omen's new drones are nice, 40 seems a bit much, even eclipsing the navy omen. Not sure about this. I would never want to see it nerfed, but to retain gallente's drone superiority, how about giving the thorax an additional 25 drone bay, for a few extra drone options on the fly. Also, the vexor had better be getting 100 bandwidth.

The thorax is hard pressed with the range of blasters. It seems it would be a wise choice to give it an additional 10m/s. speed. It needs to compensate for armor penalties.

The laser fitting buff is beyond awesome. I may have a reason to use beams now. Still, I think rails could use a little of that love too.
whaynethepain
#108 - 2012-09-18 16:47:34 UTC
Erm, oh yea baby.

Lower PG to fit med' guns.

Pure genius, though it must have taken much work to get the balance with fitting, across the range of hulls we have, and are to receive.

Reading the thread quickly, I don't think people will appreciate the potential of this fix, until it hits them Roll

Getting you on your feet.

So you've further to fall.
Ashera Yune
Doomheim
#109 - 2012-09-18 16:56:16 UTC
The stabber 5 m3 drone bay is silly. Get rid of the missiles slot, add a turret slot and 25m3 drone bay.

"Yesterday we obeyed kings and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to truth."

 Kahlil Gibran
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#110 - 2012-09-18 17:07:36 UTC
Ashera Yune wrote:
The stabber 5 m3 drone bay is silly. Get rid of the missiles slot, add a turret slot and 25m3 drone bay.


Actually it having any drones is silly. Keep it as it is and remove the drone.
Ashera Yune
Doomheim
#111 - 2012-09-18 17:10:42 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Ashera Yune wrote:
The stabber 5 m3 drone bay is silly. Get rid of the missiles slot, add a turret slot and 25m3 drone bay.


Actually it having any drones is silly. Keep it as it is and remove the drone.


Only Gallente ships should have Drones.

Remove drones from all ships EXCEPT FOR GALLENTE SHIPS.

"Yesterday we obeyed kings and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to truth."

 Kahlil Gibran
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#112 - 2012-09-18 17:11:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Stabber:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed
7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff
Slot layout: 6 H, 4 M (+1), 4 L (+1), 4 Turrets, 2 Launchers
Fittings: 715 PWG (+15), 340 CPU (+40)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1500(+15) / 1400(+150) / 1400(+111)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1200(+137.5) / 427.5s(+46.25s) / 2.8(+0.01)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 285(+54) / 0.5(+0.02) / 11400000 / 5.3s (+0.2)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47.5km(+7.5) / 320(+15) / 5
Sensor strength: 13 Ladar (+3)
Signature radius: 105
Cargo capacity: 420


Doesn't the stabber already HAVE a sensor strength of 13? You certainly don't plan on making it 16..... I want my prevalent minnie ships with as low Sensor Strength as possible...

Also, overall the changes look good... I look forward to them!!!
Bap1811
Shiva
Northern Coalition.
#113 - 2012-09-18 17:11:31 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Ashera Yune wrote:
The stabber 5 m3 drone bay is silly. Get rid of the missiles slot, add a turret slot and 25m3 drone bay.


Actually it having any drones is silly. Keep it as it is and remove the drone.


And add a gun.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#114 - 2012-09-18 17:14:01 UTC

Are the stats for t2 versions of these ships changing at the same time??? Or are they just going to be.... left as is until the next major rebalance?
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#115 - 2012-09-18 17:23:00 UTC
Bap1811 wrote:
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Ashera Yune wrote:
The stabber 5 m3 drone bay is silly. Get rid of the missiles slot, add a turret slot and 25m3 drone bay.


Actually it having any drones is silly. Keep it as it is and remove the drone.


And add a gun.


That is silly as well. Under microwarp that thing moves 2,392 m/s (that is not overheating or other speed modules). So you want longest damage projection, fastest ship, pretty decent tank, no capacitor use for weapons, and a titan-ton of damage? Yup that sounds balanced to me. Ship it.
Ashera Yune
Doomheim
#116 - 2012-09-18 17:27:51 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Bap1811 wrote:
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Ashera Yune wrote:
The stabber 5 m3 drone bay is silly. Get rid of the missiles slot, add a turret slot and 25m3 drone bay.


Actually it having any drones is silly. Keep it as it is and remove the drone.


And add a gun.


That is silly as well. Under microwarp that thing moves 2,392 m/s (that is not overheating or other speed modules). So you want longest damage projection, fastest ship, pretty decent tank, no capacitor use for weapons, and a titan-ton of damage? Yup that sounds balanced to me. Ship it.


Hahaha you dummy. Titan-ton of damage, longest damage projection? You must be a braindead ******.

"Yesterday we obeyed kings and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to truth."

 Kahlil Gibran
Svennig
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#117 - 2012-09-18 17:28:12 UTC
Ashera Yune wrote:
The stabber 5 m3 drone bay is silly. Get rid of the missiles slot, add a turret slot and 25m3 drone bay.


Yeah, that won't be unbalanced at all!~
Alara IonStorm
#118 - 2012-09-18 17:28:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Marcel Devereux wrote:

That is silly as well. Under microwarp that thing moves 2,392 m/s (that is not overheating or other speed modules). So you want longest damage projection, fastest ship, pretty decent tank, no capacitor use for weapons, and a titan-ton of damage? Yup that sounds balanced to me. Ship it.

It can currently move at that speed and no one uses it. Even with a Drone Bay and a Gun it will still do less Damage then the Rupture which is used currently and has one more low for an extra TD making the bonus all the less spectacular.

I don't care if they knock 30m/s off of it, it needs more Dmg if it is going to be used at all. Otherwise it is in the same position it was in before.

Svennig wrote:

Yeah, that won't be unbalanced at all!~

It honestly would not. The ship would have a worse tank then the Vaga and less Dmg with worse fitting and slots.

It would be a baby Vagabond. Hard to catch but we are talking 360 Paper DPS with Barrage, 430 with normal decreased by Falloff.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#119 - 2012-09-18 17:31:31 UTC
Still not convinced that axing grid and reducing arty requirement is the way to make sure auto boats are not free-to-fit-anything + max dps.
Yes, ships designed for artillery has a massive surplus when fitting autos, but wouldn't increasing auto fittings solve that just as well without making artillery a lot more viable on other races hulls?

Thorax is going to be the new FoTM. Dual prop it and abuse that tracking bonus .. holy mother of the sacred hot potato .. hope you nerf/remove ECM drones before that goes live or space risks being very bland (more than now) indeed Smile
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#120 - 2012-09-18 17:34:37 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Marcel Devereux wrote:

That is silly as well. Under microwarp that thing moves 2,392 m/s (that is not overheating or other speed modules). So you want longest damage projection, fastest ship, pretty decent tank, no capacitor use for weapons, and a titan-ton of damage? Yup that sounds balanced to me. Ship it.

It can currently move at that speed and no one uses it. Even with a Drone Bay and a Gun it will still do less Damage then the Rupture which is used currently and has one more low for an extra TD making the bonus all the less spectacular.

I don't care if they knock 30m/s off of it, it needs more Dmg if it is going to be used at all. Otherwise it is in the same position it was in before.

Svennig wrote:

Yeah, that won't be unbalanced at all!~

It honestly would not. The ship would have a worse tank then the Vaga and less Dmg with worse fitting and slots.

It would be a baby Vagabond.



With the falloff bonus i'm pretty sure it will outdps the rupture at 20 km? I havn't done the math though so i could be wrong.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish