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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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JEFFRAIDER
THIGH GUYS
#181 - 2012-09-18 15:38:42 UTC
I think the range nerf is just fine, but the damage nerf to go with it is a bit much. It's not like HMLs are exactly DPS monsters as it is, they only seem sort of out of line with how far you can project their average damage to. I don't see them being useful in any role at all after this nerf.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#182 - 2012-09-18 15:38:49 UTC
Also making TDs affect missiles is goddamn ********. Now there is literally NO situation in which you dont want TDs fitted and there is NO counter to someone using TDs (apart from blobbing them....see a theme?)
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan
#183 - 2012-09-18 15:41:07 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Also making TDs affect missiles is goddamn ********. Now there is literally NO situation in which you dont want TDs fitted and there is NO counter to someone using TDs (apart from blobbing them....see a theme?)


TCs, TEs, and Drones really are something that need to be added to the game I guess Roll

"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom."
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#184 - 2012-09-18 15:41:11 UTC
Sellendis wrote:
One working weapon system nerfed with range and dmg? Ok, what do we get in return?
Can we get 20% DPS and range buff for minmatar ACs? It would only be fair.
You might have a future at CCP. You should put in an application.
Athena Themis
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#185 - 2012-09-18 15:41:14 UTC
RIP Faildari, hello Amarr supremacy.
Memrox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#186 - 2012-09-18 15:41:32 UTC
Fozzie was a null sec blobber....... need i say more?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#187 - 2012-09-18 15:42:16 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Also making TDs affect missiles is goddamn ********. Now there is literally NO situation in which you dont want TDs fitted and there is NO counter to someone using TDs (apart from blobbing them....see a theme?)


Use ECM?

Use disruptors?
Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
#188 - 2012-09-18 15:43:31 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Also making TDs affect missiles is goddamn ********. Now there is literally NO situation in which you dont want TDs fitted and there is NO counter to someone using TDs (apart from blobbing them....see a theme?)
You ********?
Drones basically ignore TDs.
Neuts too.
Painters, webs, TCs, TEs all help counter TDs. Also ammo and weapon choice.
Piloting still applies, orbitting at optimal with guns vs a missile user hurts your tracking but reduces incoming damage, or sit still for both doing max dps.
Also, everyone always wants another tackle mod, and cap injector, and tank mod, and dps mod...
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#189 - 2012-09-18 15:43:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ravcharas
Michael Harari wrote:
Also making TDs affect missiles is goddamn ********. Now there is literally NO situation in which you dont want TDs fitted and there is NO counter to someone using TDs (apart from blobbing them....see a theme?)

Fit a tracking enhancer, fit a tracking computer, fit a web, fit a painter, fit neuts, use appropriate ammo, or use ecm.
Peter Tjordenskiold
#190 - 2012-09-18 15:44:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Peter Tjordenskiold
hahaha even a Enyo makes more damage than a Drake.

TBH the damage of destroyers is to high in relationship to BC. This revamp is totally crap.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#191 - 2012-09-18 15:45:53 UTC
Making TD's work against missiles is a major mistake too btw. I like the idea of having a TD-ish mechanic work against missiles, that is not a bad thing per se. But when you make missiles affected by TD then you have a nobrainer to fit TD on every ship that has midslots to spare.

Now picture this; which race has the most mids to spare? Gallente. They also happen to be short range (blaster and drones). when TD will affect all weapontypes, Gallente will just force people to go up close or run. It's a bit too early to paint doomsday scenarios, but this could very well rupture the whole game in the nationality balance. I don't mind flying drone boats myself, my Gallente skills are top notch, but it's worrying overall if the devs just don't even think about this on such an early state of development process, to be honest. Make a new module, TD-ish, that counters missiles, and you got my love, that's a whole different story.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#192 - 2012-09-18 15:46:04 UTC
Vicar2008 wrote:
While the nerf to HML nerf to range i can agree with, the nerf to damage is pretty dam awful 20% and is a terrible terrible idea imo. Cerebus HAC has just went from bad to Eagle bad, and trust me there now both worst HAC there is.......


I fear this is the truth :(
Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
#193 - 2012-09-18 15:46:50 UTC
Peter Tjordenskiold wrote:
hahaha even a Enyo makes more damage than a Drake
Than a HAM drake?
With the same range?
The same EHP behind it to turn DPS into a larger total damage applied?
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#194 - 2012-09-18 15:47:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Unforgiven Storm
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAAHA

another nerf Lol

first where supers...
then titans...
then lets kill otec and nerf tec...
now lets kill the drake blob, the welpcanes blob and all tengus blob (what a coincidence, all ship doctrines the CFC uses in mass, pure coincidence of course, no tinfoil teories here)

Edit: Im starting to think CCP doesn't like any of the 0.0 alliances in this game with more than 500 players...

Unfortunately for everybody else, we are like the Borg, we will just adapt and tomorrow we will just use "put the best low cost ship name vs dps ratio here" to blob all our enemies again and again and again!...

...and 6 months from now we all be here again, nerfing that ship(s) and/or weapon system(s).


This just made my boring work day go away and I'm very happy now


Fake edit: I can see all carriers beeing nerfed next.... "no sentry drones for you" Lol

Real edit: my english is very bad and needed a fix and I added a line to clarify that some nerfs like the titan and supers hit others than CFC and the nerfs is becoming a common 0.0 alliances problem and not just a CFC problem!

Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-)
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#195 - 2012-09-18 15:47:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Ravcharas wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Also making TDs affect missiles is goddamn ********. Now there is literally NO situation in which you dont want TDs fitted and there is NO counter to someone using TDs (apart from blobbing them....see a theme?)

Fit a tracking enhancer, fit a tracking computer, fit a web, fit a painter, fit neuts, use appropriate ammo, or use ecm.


Do you really think that a tracking computer counters a tracking disruptor?


PS. Show me the shield cane fit with a tracking computer and a web.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#196 - 2012-09-18 15:47:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
Here are some raw numbers useful for understanding the proposed HML, beam laser and artillery changes:

250mm Railgun II with Spike:
DPS: 20
Alpha: 92
Optimal: 65 km
Falloff: 15 km
Cap/sec: -1.1
PG: 187.2
CPU: 31.5

Heavy Beam Laser II with Aurora:
DPS: 21
Alpha: 91
Optimal: 54 km
Falloff: 10 km
Cap/sec: -3.8
PG: 223.2 (previously 248.5)
CPU: 27.8

720mm Artillery II with Tremor:
DPS: 17
Alpha: 242
Optimal: 54 km
Falloff: 22 km
Cap/sec: 0
PG: 223.2 (previously 248.5)
CPU: 24

Heavy Missile Launcher II with Caldari Navy Scourge:
DPS: 23 (previously 29)
Alpha: 189 (previously 237)
Range: 63 km (previously 84)
Cap/sec: 0
PG: 94.5
CPU: 41.3

This is without any ship bonuses. My view on this is that a 25% range and a 20% dps nerf only seem ridiculous if one ignores just how much better HMLs were than other weapon systems.
Anja Suorsa
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#197 - 2012-09-18 15:48:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Anja Suorsa
I support all proposed changes for the Winter Expac so far with the exception of

CCP Fozzie wrote:

Heavy Missiles
-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF.


Wow. That's pretty terrible. Entire Caldari cruiser/Battlecruiser line made obsolete at range with Med rails being rubbish and HML nerferd into the floor.

Please reconsider. 10% decrease to HML damage and 10% increase for HAMs would surely make more sense? Ugh

Takeshi Yamato wrote:


This is without any ship bonuses. My view on this is that a 25% range and a 20% dps nerf only seem ridiculous if one ignores just how much better HMLs were than other weapon systems.


This doesn't take into account any travel time on your missiles, already the big disadvantage they have.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#198 - 2012-09-18 15:50:09 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:

This is without any ship bonuses. My view on this is that a 25% range and a 20% dps nerf only seem ridiculous if one ignores just how much better HMLs were than other weapon systems.


Your analysis doesnt include that HMLs dont do full damage to frigates and cruisers (or particularly fast BCs even), regardless of how you pilot.
Cede Forster
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#199 - 2012-09-18 15:50:13 UTC
my dear drake, my lovely tengu
it was fun while it lasted
i am sorry but we must part
20% - i am sure you understand
we can stay friends - i promise i visit you

in the hanger
Doddy
Excidium.
#200 - 2012-09-18 15:50:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Doddy
What does ccp have against the nighthawk is the real question, 2 hml bonuses lol. Such an awesome looking ship too ...... shame.