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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Suggestions from a new player.

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-09-17 07:14:56 UTC
Sugar Kyle wrote:
You seem to understand little about game balance. As things are, to give you all the useful tools you feel that you need they would instantly over power every single ship by adding more high slots.

What battleship is made to go out and also salvage destroyed ship wrecks?

What exploration ship is made to go out and take down massive fleets of pirates like a badass?

What small fast fighter is made to haul a ton of reprocessed parts back to the station for later.

Eve is about spaceships and spaceships are about specialization. If you want a terrible ship that does everything in a pathetic ineffective way you can go build that spaceship. Enjoy it. Just please, do not wonder why everyone else is succeeding when you are not.

Edited to add:

Eve is a MMO. That means there are other players playing the game. Even more so then most MMOs, Eve is not a solo experience. You have a place in a fleet. Somewhere under your entitled, sarcastic whining you may be a great person and fun to game with. I'm sure you can find someone who believes this. Eve shines with other people.


This. And from what I see are your complains on EVE. EVE might just not be the game for you.

In EVE you have ships which all suit a certain role best. You have to swap ships for different roles or just pick one role youbwant to stick with. Thats whybyou either see exploration guys reshipping when needed or just scan down one type of site as they cba about the others.

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-09-17 07:18:28 UTC
Usdom Chaffmen wrote:
Sugar Kyle wrote:
You seem to understand little about game balance. As things are, to give you all the useful tools you feel that you need they would instantly over power every single ship by adding more high slots.

What battleship is made to go out and also salvage destroyed ship wrecks?



Let me point you towards this little thing called Battle Star Galactica. They salvaged ships all the time. They salvaged -enemy- ships. Salvaging the technology of your enemy is how you win wars. Ever hear of the Enigma device? Because America got it's hands on enemy tech we won the world war. Not taking every advantage you can is stupid.

Sugar Kyle wrote:

What exploration ship is made to go out and take down massive fleets of pirates like a badass?

We are talking about tools not guns and shields. Try and keep on subject.

Sugar Kyle wrote:

What small fast fighter is made to haul a ton of reprocessed parts back to the station for later.


If you are a small, light fighter then obviously you would have a small cargo hold but nothing should stop you from salvaging your enemies until that cargo hold is full. If your enemy drops a super-secret communication decoder and you can't pick it up because your ship is not equipped with a grappling gun then your corp has lost a major advantage because your ship is poorly designed. I'm not saying all ships should do all jobs just as well. I'm saying all ships should have at LEAST basic functionality because anything less is stupid.

Sugar Kyle wrote:

Eve is about spaceships and spaceships are about specialization. If you want a terrible ship that does everything in a pathetic ineffective way you can go build that spaceship. Enjoy it. Just please, do not wonder why everyone else is succeeding when you are not.


This is how real business works: You provide a better product or you lose the game. Ships without minimal ability to salvage and take advantage of situations as they arise would not sell as well as a ship that has all the function of a normal ship and the extras of having the tools needed to harvest/salvage/whatever. The fact that ships don't all have slots fitted specifically for the tools is kinda backwards and illogical and I mean backwards as in the development of ship technology -should- have included slots specifically for the tools in a natural evolution of the engineering and business process. The fact you have to waste a weapon slot on a -tool- is insane. No engineer would design that and no pilot would buy a ship of one who did. It's like designing a car where you had to choose from break lights or turn signals but not have both.

This is how it should work: Your ship should have a limited power supply. You can choose to rout power to your weapon port or your currently selected tool port. If you are mining and you get attacked you should be able to turn off the laser drill and turn on your weapon system by routing power back to it. This is how someone who had even the slightest inkling engineering would do it because who ever designed this system first would totally dominate the ship market.



You almost killed me from laughing. All that your enemy can drop is modlues he had fitted which are also on the market. The is no such thing as covert machinery like the Enigma machine in EVE.

Really, sorry ISD if this is bashing again, do your research on certain aspects on EVE before coming to the forums whining on things.

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Keno Skir
#43 - 2012-09-17 07:18:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
Usdom Chaffmen wrote:
Load of stuff


Seriously man, all the ships can equip a salvager. Please stop makind sweeping statements about something you know little about (and please dont include Battlestar Ga-crap-tica in your evidence in future Shocked ).

For everyone else, the tutorials are a bit hit and miss but it's really not so bad. We all managed it, just takes a bit of free thought.

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Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2012-09-17 07:45:16 UTC
That's an entertaining thread for sure.
One thing puzzling me though, I never got stuck with the tutorials for not receiving a mining laser, this must happening when doing the career agents in a very specific order, about a month ago I got through with an alt and after checking I see it has no less than 4 civilian lasers and some 6 mining laser I... ok it may happen in a very specific situation that someone ends up without the tool for a mission, but it's such a well known bug (should have been fixed by now, but meh ... CCP soon) that if someone can't rub 2 brain cells together to fire google or ask in them pesky blinking chat channels the new players have, no big loss I say.

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#45 - 2012-09-17 08:10:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Usdom Chaffmen wrote:

Ever hear of the Enigma device? Because America got it's hands on enemy tech we won the world war. Not taking every advantage you can is stupid.


Usdom Chaffmen wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

The Enigma device was obtained & decoded in the first instance by the Polish in the late 30's, the military grade machines were decoded by the British at Bletchley Park and it was British sailors that recovered the military code books & military spec Enigma machine in 1942 from U-559. The hollywood screenplays are works of fiction based on real life events which were altered to appeal to an American audience.

WW2 was won by a coalition of nations including Great Britain (and the commonwealth countries), the US (after Pearl Harbour) and what became the USSR as well as ex-pats from occupied Europe, not just the US.


Wow, that's a lot of words to say, "Yes, you're right. The war was won by using the enemy's technology against them."


No it's a couple of small paragraphs that were written to correct your knowledge of 20th century history, if you wish to use history to make a point please make sure that you use actual historical fact instead of a script writers fantasy on what may have happened, namely the plot of U-571.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#46 - 2012-09-17 08:58:02 UTC
Sin Pew wrote:
… about a month ago I got through with an alt and after checking I see it has no less than 4 civilian lasers and some 6 mining laser I... ok it may happen in a very specific situation that someone ends up without the tool for a mission


Was this a brand new alt? A brand new character will start the game in their Captains Quarters, head out to space in a capsule, pick up an assembled but unfitted rookie ship in space, then enter the career agent chain with no mining laser fitted.

If your alt started with a rookie ship that they picked up by docking in a capsule, it will have a mining laser fitted: but new players don't know this.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2012-09-17 09:33:39 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Sin Pew wrote:
… about a month ago I got through with an alt and after checking I see it has no less than 4 civilian lasers and some 6 mining laser I... ok it may happen in a very specific situation that someone ends up without the tool for a mission


Was this a brand new alt? A brand new character will start the game in their Captains Quarters, head out to space in a capsule, pick up an assembled but unfitted rookie ship in space, then enter the career agent chain with no mining laser fitted.

If your alt started with a rookie ship that they picked up by docking in a capsule, it will have a mining laser fitted: but new players don't know this.
Yes it was a brand new alt and it started in his pod.
I know the tutorial taking you to your first ship gets you in a ship without any fitting, but over the course of some career agent missions, you're given mining lasers, sometimes civilians, sometimes regular T1.
I'm merely pointing out that it seems to be in a very specific agent order that the player ends up without the tool for the mission (maybe even a specific race, though I've had gallente, amarr, caldari and minmatar agents in various alts without any issue like that).

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2012-09-17 09:43:45 UTC
The problem with you, OP, it's not that you don't like some aspects of the game or tutorial, it's not that you give some opinion on how it should be, no, that is a good thing and there are a few points you've written about which are indeed interesting to try to improve.
The problem is that if you do it agressively and dismissively, then we are not really motivated anymore to listen to you and help you.
We must not bash on the newcomers, but the newcomers are allowed to speak kindly too, it's not forbidden, and most do it very well who receive plenty of attention, respect, help and make plenty of friends.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#49 - 2012-09-17 11:37:02 UTC
Sin Pew wrote:
I'm merely pointing out that it seems to be in a very specific agent order that the player ends up without the tool for the mission (maybe even a specific race, though I've had gallente, amarr, caldari and minmatar agents in various alts without any issue like that).


Or maybe CCP have fixed it Big smile

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#50 - 2012-09-17 13:00:37 UTC
I looked on the market for something I needed in an early mission.

I don't understand why people don't do that because the game does not hand them something. I think I needed a skill book. The view market buttons and such things made me look at the market. I had isk and purchased things that I needed to finish the tutorial.

Frankly, I thought that was part of the training. Learning to use the market to get the tools you needed to succeed in the game. All games have some type of market.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.
Lyric Lahnder
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-09-17 13:40:57 UTC
Wow.

Most of us started back before either there was a tutorial or before when the tutorial was even more broken and less explanatory then it is now.

You dont like reading or following directions or attention to detail?

This aint the game for you bucko.

Im certainly not the shiniest penny in the bank but even when I got started three years ago I had better luck with the old tutorial, then you seem to be having with the updated one.

CCP has been busting there balls to make this as hand holdy as possible, the fact you cant figure it out I think has more to say about you then how CCP codes this game.

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Davith en Divalone
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-09-17 15:59:45 UTC
World of Warcraft limits you to two primary gathering/crafting professions. A quick google search reveals that GW and GW2 limits a character to two, and as I recall, Champions online limits you to one. At least in WoW, the primary professions served mainly as a time/gold sink. The primary market for mats is characters grinding crafting professions. The primary market for crafted items is the trash can or an enchanting alt at a substantial loss. Only a handful of crafted items are useful in the endgame due to an abundance of boss drops and purchasable tier gear.

But, it's comparing apples to oranges because the primary goal of most of those games is engagement in scripted PvE, and gathering/crafting is a (weak) way to make those PvE boss fights easier. EVE is more like a collaborative 4X game, and being willing to optimize the tradeoffs among DPS, tank, harvesting, and transportation utility is the central part of finding a niche in that 4X ecosystem.

The combat tutorial missions give you frigates with three and four high slots that can fit a weapon, miner, and salvager if you want to roll that way. You couldn't use a Kestrel for this, and the Tristan demands an awkward split between hybrid and launcher, but it's certainly possible.
Oraac Ensor
#53 - 2012-09-17 20:19:42 UTC
ISD Athechu wrote:
Oraac Ensor wrote:

With all due respect, that is not true.

I believe Usdom is referring to Mission 3 of the business tutorial 'Balancing the Books', which requires the player to mine some veldspar but does not provide a mining laser. A mining laser is not given until it arrives as a reward for Mission 6 (iirc). Unless the player has already done the industry tutorial he has nothing with which to mine the ore.

As I said, during the 9 months I have been playing EVE that situation has been repeatedly drawn to CCP's attention but nothing whatsoever has been done about it.


That is backwards then.... If you wouldn't mind could you file a bug report because that just doesn't seem right. But I will agree that my statement was semi-wrong and that some items you do need to buy off of the market so you can get use to using the market. But the mining laser should be given to you (and is later What?) at the time of when you need it.

I will look into this matter further and poke and prod the appropriate people see what is up with this if it was an error or something.

I don't think I can file a bug report because it isn't a bug - it's bad game design.

To me, a bug is when something which should happen doesn't, or when something which shouldn't happen does. This is working as intended. There has never been any indication that the mission is supposed to provide a mining laser.

Whoever decided to remove the civilian modules from new players' rookie ships didn't think through the consequences properly.
Nikolai Dostoyevski
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-09-18 01:40:01 UTC
Please be aware that if I see you in game, I will shoot you, even if you're in "safe" space. Making such a big deal about voice-overs being in the game brings back SWTOR nightmares (what a horrid game that was)... You have triggered an involuntary and irrational reaction.
Keno Skir
#55 - 2012-09-18 10:57:54 UTC
Beckie DeLey wrote:
Now get the **** off my space lawn, hippie.


I like you :D

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250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Lexie Nardieu
Doomheim
#56 - 2012-09-18 11:11:00 UTC
2/10. Entertaining but yet so easy to see through. Do you expect to be everything yourself at the same time? And voiced tutorials, where have you ever seen that before? Is it really that important? You can read, can't you?

Yep, I fed the troll. I hope he posts more rage here so I might get more amused.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-09-18 11:25:06 UTC
Lexie Nardieu wrote:
2/10. Entertaining but yet so easy to see through. Do you expect to be everything yourself at the same time? And voiced tutorials, where have you ever seen that before? Is it really that important? You can read, can't you?

Yep, I fed the troll. I hope he posts more rage here so I might get more amused.



I like this.

Same here, keep feeding.

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#58 - 2012-09-18 12:30:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Well we've tried to help the OP and all he does is find something else to rage about. I say let him build his "Frankenstein do it all comedy killmails" and then laugh at him when they die miserably and he rages about how his ship doesn't have the ability to tank like a Titan while being able to mine, rat, salvage, gas harvest, satisfy women the world over and do the macarena all at the same time.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2012-09-18 13:08:46 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Well we've tried to help the OP and all he does is find something else to rage about. I say let him build his "Frankenstein do it all comedy killmails" and then laugh at him when they die miserably and he rages about how his ship doesn't have the ability to tank like a Titan while being able to mine, rat, salvage, gas harvest, satisfy women the world over and do the macarena all at the same time.
That's something I'd love to see, who's up for a machinima of spaceships dancing macarena?

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]
ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
ISD Alliance
#60 - 2012-09-18 13:54:43 UTC
I have just made a sticky topic about suggestions and the tutorials.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1936565

Going to lock this thread now please direct additional suggestions there.

ISD Athechu

STAR Executive

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