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Isn't it about time suicide ganking was fixed? (Not removed, just made harder).

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Angelo Doelman
Bacon Diplomacy Project
#101 - 2011-10-15 21:43:04 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Angelo Doelman wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
I think changes need to be made...

To the ships. Mining Barges have almost no room for tank. A fully tanked Hulk with a DCU, Hardeners, Extenders, CDFE Rigs runs close to 30k EHP. If you fully tank it properly it should be designed to be 45-60k. Make it so mining Barges can host a good Shield Tank, Pro:15k, Retty:25k, Covi:30k.

Give these people a fighting chance to tank there ships if they so choose. Same with Industrials and such.


No.

There is no defence to N+1 ganking.

If your ship can survive 1 [insert FOTM gank boat], they will bring two.
If your ship can survive 2 [insert FOTM gank boat], they will bring three.
If your ship can survive 3 [insert FOTM gank boat], they will bring four.

Do you see a pattern here?

Yeah the pattern is that suicide ganks are part of the game. That is no excuse for these ships to have 0 ability to fit a tank in return for sacrifice of yield or cargo. Barges could stand a bit more flexibility in their environment.

As for your Gank pattern that is part of EVE, you could try STO.

Why must every ship be able to fit a tank? This is a role-specific ship. So specific, that this class of ship are the only ships capable of fitting a strip miner or a ice harvester.
Angelo Doelman
Bacon Diplomacy Project
#102 - 2011-10-15 21:46:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelo Doelman
ACE McFACE wrote:
I have solved every problem ever

Get an alt in a rookie ship, make him shoot your hulk/mack even Mission Running ship, instant Concord protection

Note: Ganking is the good and getting mails of rage is better

If I'm not mistaken, as part of the Goon doctrin, they play some game mechanic that rids the belt of concord after they shoot the miners.

This way they can reset the icefield so that the miners don't have a hour or so of protection.
Stan Smith
State War Academy
Caldari State
#103 - 2011-10-15 21:46:50 UTC
i didnt know every person who mines ice in empire is required to 1: be AFK, and 2: use bots

☻/ /▌ / \ This is Bob, post him into your forum sig and help him conquer the forums.
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2011-10-15 21:47:07 UTC
Angelo Doelman wrote:
Why must every ship be able to fit a tank? This is a role-specific ship. So specific, that this class of ship are the only ships capable of fitting a strip miner or a ice harvester.


They don't have to fit a tank. If they were aligned out and actually paying attention to the game, they could avoid all these ganks. Just warp out when Goons show up. Easy.

Unfortunately, the people complaining don't actually enjoy the game enough to pay attention to it.

Not just bots, but badposting on forums (mostly crying about Goons killing them while they were on the forums badposting about goons) with EVE open in the background. Stuff like that.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#105 - 2011-10-15 21:47:54 UTC
By the way, i remember one of the CSM (possibly mittani himself) saying that he wouldn't mind if insurance for concordoken ships were to be removed. Can't remember if he said that because someone touched on the subject, or if he said it because CCP was considering it.


I sure wouldn't mind.. thrashers are cheapo enough.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#106 - 2011-10-15 21:48:42 UTC

Insurance should be removed altogether. Without any oversight, the blind generation of isk out of thin air is detrimental to the economy.

It's an isk faucet that should be turned off. For everyone.

Dum Spiro Spero
Angelo Doelman
Bacon Diplomacy Project
#107 - 2011-10-15 21:51:32 UTC
Xython wrote:
Angelo Doelman wrote:
Why must every ship be able to fit a tank? This is a role-specific ship. So specific, that this class of ship are the only ships capable of fitting a strip miner or a ice harvester.


They don't have to fit a tank. If they were aligned out and actually paying attention to the game, they could avoid all these ganks. Just warp out when Goons show up. Easy.

Unfortunately, the people complaining don't actually enjoy the game enough to pay attention to it.

Not just bots, but badposting on forums (mostly crying about Goons killing them while they were on the forums badposting about goons) with EVE open in the background. Stuff like that.


Are you talking about passive align or active? Because passive doesn't actually work. The ship "rotating" in space graphic has no bearing on the math EVE uses to calculate your ship's ability to accelerate to warp.

Active doesn't work, because they need to remain close to the ice for the duration of the cycle.
Angelo Doelman
Bacon Diplomacy Project
#108 - 2011-10-15 21:54:27 UTC
KaarBaak wrote:

Insurance should be removed altogether. Without any oversight, the blind generation of isk out of thin air is detrimental to the economy.

It's an isk faucet that should be turned off. For everyone.


How is it blind generation? It is simply a reimbursment of a portion of the mineral cost of your ship's hull.
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2011-10-15 21:56:30 UTC
KaarBaak wrote:
It's an isk faucet that should be turned off. For everyone.


The only way this makes sense is if you're an AFKing highsec pubbie who can count on one hand the number of ships he's lost this week.

(Usually these types run AFK missions and/or AFK bot mine, so they really don't count for anything other than target practice.)

For the rest of us, those who actually play the game, losing ships is a common enough occurrence that insurance is vital. To say nothing about newbies who rely on that insurance to get back into the game without mining or doing L1 missions in a newbie frig to buy a second battleship... every time they die.
Galehund
The Right Corp
#110 - 2011-10-15 21:57:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Galehund
Tallian Saotome wrote:

I don't know about elsewhere, but here in the US it has been upheld in court time and again that the police have no obligation to protect you. Their job is to protect society, not individuals, and they are to do that by punishing the bad guys....


And still police will try to be pro active, you know like crime prevention. Today some of that is even done on "super" computers that recognized hot zones and patters.
Alara IonStorm
#111 - 2011-10-15 21:57:42 UTC
David Cedarbridge wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
David Cedarbridge wrote:


Apparently you've totally missed the point. I'd still be down for that gank just to prove you that I can do it and to collect the tears from the "invulnerable" miracle hulk.

How do you know it is tanked, gonna let a test wave die, bring overkill to every gank or take the leg work to get a clear scan of the fit without spooking him.


Passive targeters and ship scanners are hard.

Then it should be no problem dealing with a competently tanked ship.
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2011-10-15 21:58:56 UTC
Angelo Doelman wrote:
Active doesn't work, because they need to remain close to the ice for the duration of the cycle.


Works fine. Align, when you're pointed at the warpout location, hit ctrl-space to stop your ship. Yes, you'll have to speed up to get out, but it's not like they're going to be tackling you or something.
Alara IonStorm
#113 - 2011-10-15 21:59:53 UTC
Angelo Doelman wrote:

Why must every ship be able to fit a tank? This is a role-specific ship. So specific, that this class of ship are the only ships capable of fitting a strip miner or a ice harvester.

Why should it not be able to fit a tank. Trucks are designed to move stuff, does not mean they do not have seatbelts.
XIRUSPHERE
In Bacon We Trust
#114 - 2011-10-15 22:01:40 UTC
KaarBaak wrote:

Insurance should be removed altogether. Without any oversight, the blind generation of isk out of thin air is detrimental to the economy.

It's an isk faucet that should be turned off. For everyone.



See you have the right idea, inflation is rampant enough and people would start flying with their heads about them a bit more. In today's eve insurance should be removed for all parties.

The advantage of a bad memory is that one can enjoy the same good things for the first time several times.

One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#115 - 2011-10-15 22:01:48 UTC
Xython wrote:
Angelo Doelman wrote:
Active doesn't work, because they need to remain close to the ice for the duration of the cycle.


Works fine. Align, when you're pointed at the warpout location, hit ctrl-space to stop your ship. Yes, you'll have to speed up to get out, but it's not like they're going to be tackling you or something.


They might drop a bubl....

nevermind.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2011-10-15 22:01:48 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Then it should be no problem dealing with a competently tanked ship.


Right. And it isn't.
Alara IonStorm
#117 - 2011-10-15 22:02:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Xython wrote:
Angelo Doelman wrote:
Active doesn't work, because they need to remain close to the ice for the duration of the cycle.


Works fine. Align, when you're pointed at the warpout location, hit ctrl-space to stop your ship. Yes, you'll have to speed up to get out, but it's not like they're going to be tackling you or something.

Why not, Sebo lock while they speed up and drop a T1 WD on them. Isn't a point standard on any gank ship that can fit them and doesn't need the res due to stacking.
Xython wrote:

Right. And it isn't.

For you maybe but for fail gankers who have it easy, well they can ether get in the game or GTFO back to L4's.
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2011-10-15 22:05:28 UTC
Well, yeah, if they get you targeted and pointed, you're dead.

AND SHOULD BE.

But if you're watching and warp out before they can do that. Like, say, when they enter local.

But again, that would require these people actually enjoy the game enough to pay attention to it while "playing."

And they don't.
Alara IonStorm
#119 - 2011-10-15 22:13:47 UTC
Xython wrote:
Well, yeah, if they get you targeted and pointed, you're dead.

AND SHOULD BE.

But if you're watching and warp out before they can do that. Like, say, when they enter local.

But again, that would require these people actually enjoy the game enough to pay attention to it while "playing."

And they don't.

Wow something just hit me and I didn't realize until now. I have solved every problem there is with mining and ganking.

The Secret is coming to the realization of how little I care. Mining is boring, so is shooting folks who don't shoot back. Two things I won't ever have the inclination to do.

Whelp I am just gonna mosey along back to my little corner of EVE and pretend I was never here.
Sergara Darkthorn
Tinkers and Ne'er-do-wells
#120 - 2011-10-15 22:15:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergara Darkthorn
Angelo Doelman wrote:
ACE McFACE wrote:
I have solved every problem ever

Get an alt in a rookie ship, make him shoot your hulk/mack even Mission Running ship, instant Concord protection

Note: Ganking is the good and getting mails of rage is better

If I'm not mistaken, as part of the Goon doctrin, they play some game mechanic that rids the belt of concord after they shoot the miners.

This way they can reset the icefield so that the miners don't have a hour or so of protection.



Goons (of old) were idiots... actually....


actually as an adendum:

0.0 depends on hi sec industry (e/g mining for those that have trouble understanding that word)