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The Cursed Navy 418
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Likes received: 418	#281 - 2012-09-17 09:22:48 UTC The long range missiles "heavy" and "cruise" really would benefit from -25% range and +20% damage, just like beams and rails would benefit from getting alpha strike doubled without increasing the dps...

Alara IonStorm

Likes received: 5,477

#282 - 2012-09-17 10:17:53 UTC

Pinky Denmark wrote:

The long range missiles "heavy" and "cruise" really would benefit from -25% range and +20% damage,
just like beams and rails would benefit from getting alpha strike doubled without increasing the dps...

Tengu with 20% more Damage and fires to 100km
Drake Fleet fits losing the 2 CCC's for Velocity Rigs and firing at longer ranges faster while still running their MWD's for about 7min get 20% more Dmg.

My god the Drake would actually do more DPS then the 720mm 2 Gyro Arty Cane does with close range ammo to 4 times the distance and with almost twice the tank... and the Cane has 2 DPS bonuses

Shocked

Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 2,240
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel Likes received: 2,240	#283 - 2012-09-17 10:40:46 UTC Heavy missiles need to lose some range but mostly they need to be worse against frigs. BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Caldari Provisions Caldari State 355
Galphii Caldari Provisions Caldari State Likes received: 355	#284 - 2012-09-17 10:54:41 UTC 1 Yeah heavies need less range and less accuracy. "Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.

In Wreck we thrust 554
Bouh Revetoile In Wreck we thrust Likes received: 554	#285 - 2012-09-17 12:01:23 UTC Pinky Denmark wrote: The long range missiles "heavy" and "cruise" really would benefit from -25% range and +20% damage, just like beams and rails would benefit from getting alpha strike doubled without increasing the dps... I personnaly would have thought that HML would deserve -5% dps or something alike ; range+explosion velocity nerf may be a good "alike".

Rayner Vanguard

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 3

#286 - 2012-09-17 12:04:12 UTC

Quote:

Arbitrator:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
Slot layout: 4 H, 4 M, 5 L (+1), 2 turrets, 1 launcher
Fittings: 575 PWG, 325 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100(+84) / 1500(+132) / 1600(+232)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+313) / 490s(+108.75s) / 2.8 (+0.02)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 200(+41) / 0.56(-0.05) / 11200000 / 5.9s (-0.5)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 150
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 285(+3) / 7(+1)
Sensor strength: 15 Radar (+3)
Signature radius: 130
Cargo capacity: 345

Looks like a bit stronger version than Vexor

Quote:

Blackbird:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength
10% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal range and falloff
Slot layout: 4 H, 6 M, 3 L (+1), 3 turrets, 3 launchers
Fittings: 525 PWG, 425 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1400(-6) / 1200(+145) / 1400(+267)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1250(+187.5) / 445s(+63.75s) / 2.8 (+0.02)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 190(+9) / 0.48(+0.025) / 13190000 / 5.9s (+0.3)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10(+10) / 10(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 85km(+10) / 230 / 8
Sensor strength: 20 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 150
Cargo capacity: 305

Additional 1 med drone or 2 small drones?
Even more powerful than Celestis

Quote:

Celestis:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness
10% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener optimal range
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 5 M, 5 L (+2), 3 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 575 PWG, 375 CPU (+50)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(+27) / 1300(+11) / 1700(+411)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1300(+175) / 463s(+63s) / 2.8 (-0.01)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 210(+29) / 0.505(-0.06) / 12070000 / 5.7s (+0.7)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10)/ 50(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km(+10) / 290(+2) / 8(+2)
Sensor strength: 18 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 135
Cargo capacity: 320

As long as damp still like this, I guess not much changes
Please buff the damp

Quote:

Bellicose:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness
5% bonus to Rapid Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire
Slot layout: 4 H (-1), 5 M (+1), 4 L (+1), 4 launchers
Fittings: 575 PWG, 360 CPU (+110)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1400(+150) / 1200(-11) / 1500(+289)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1200(+262.5) / 427.5s(+92.5s) / 2.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+31) / 0.51 / 11550000 / 5.5s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10)/ 50(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 42.5km / 300(+7) / 7
Sensor strength: 14 Ladar (+3)
Signature radius: 120 (+10)
Cargo capacity: 315

Smart move
Instead of fixing the tp, ccp buff the tp ship to a solo capable

Now, Arbitrator and Bellicose on the grey area (e-war or attacking ship? ), especially Bellicose.

I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing


Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel Likes received: 2,240	#287 - 2012-09-17 12:52:04 UTC \| Edited by: Garviel Tarrant Rayner Vanguard wrote: Now, Arbitrator and Bellicose on the grey area (e-war or attacking ship? ), especially Bellicose. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing Thats what they are supposed to be. ewar combat ships. BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Pinky Denmark

The Cursed Navy

Likes received: 418

#288 - 2012-09-17 13:22:59 UTC

Artillery have a super low dps and if they didn't have a huge alpha potential deserved a dps increase...
Also Drake and Tengu definately need an adjustment so rejecting a suggestion with those examples are bad.

But you are right the heavy missiles with the second lowest medium sized dps isn't the worst missile system. The range however could easily handle a cut down in range and we will hopefully be able to use HAMs on a Caracal in the near future without becoming too limited. The cruise missile range could easily be cut in half and they really need some love in the dps compartment...

Pinky

258
Denuo Secus Likes received: 258	#289 - 2012-09-17 13:36:55 UTC Since the Arbitrator is part of this change: do you plan to review Amarr scout drones? At the moment there is no reason to use them. Minmatar drones are faster and do more damage. And if I want damage against shield tanked ships I'd use Gallente drones.

Alticus C Bear

University of Caille

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 202

#290 - 2012-09-17 14:22:58 UTC

Denuo Secus wrote:

Since the Arbitrator is part of this change: do you plan to review Amarr scout drones? At the moment there is no reason to use them. Minmatar drones are faster and do more damage. And if I want damage against shield tanked ships I'd use Gallente drones.

A drone adjustment here would be nice, there is quite a speed buff going on here for cruisers, i think that is good but has any thought been put towards medium drone speeds, will any adjustements be required.

How fast does that bellicose go must be around 2km/s hammerheads go around 2.1 I think.

Alara IonStorm

Likes received: 5,477

#291 - 2012-09-17 15:47:20 UTC | Edited by: Alara IonStorm

Denuo Secus wrote:

I think they should use what already works and buff by opposite Damage Types.

Amarr Drones copy the Minmatar Drone Stats but do the opposite Dmg Type. EM for Shields EX for Armor.
Gallente and Minmatar Drones do the same, Therm Resists is lower on Shields, Kin Resists is lower on Armor.

That way there is no "best" just best for the situation, High Speed / Low Damage Armor or Shield Vs Low Speed / High Damage Armor or Shield.

X Gallentius

Black Eagle1

Likes received: 2,982

#292 - 2012-09-17 16:55:42 UTC | Edited by: X Gallentius

Here is my thinking on damps:

The only problem with damps is that they don't go well with blaster hulls. In that sense they are nonsensical with the theoretical Gallente close range fleet fighting doctrine everybody is stuck on. (BTW, I don't understand CCP Fozzie's fascination with damps + drones - the other guy will simply shoot the drones when they get into range.)

Otherwise they are very effective in fights involving mid ranges (25 to 120 km), and are a good fit with rails. The Gallente fleet "meta" is now rails - not blasters. Javelin + rails hits really well at close range, and rails can project damage out to long range with other ammo types. Rails have more dps than arties and the challenge for them is to be able to apply damage over time - which is helped when a lower lock-ranged arty/laser hull is damped out.

Also, damps + speed + cap stability is a deadly combination to go up against. Celestis will be able to solo many ships slower than itself if fit up properly. There are several light missile fit "nano" hookbills out therethat omgwtfpwn other hulls.

Damps could use more optimal to beat down on hulls fighting in the 100 km to 150 km range, so giving the Celestis damps optimal bonus is a good thing. Force those hulls to either burn out to warp in range, or force them to burn into regular tackle range. So, optimal+falloff out to 150 km is a good thing.

Damps also have the nice feature of scan resolution dampening which gives smaller ships the ability to manuever against bigger hulls as well as significantly reduce the effectiveness of enemy ships from switching targets (logi, BS switching targets to smaller hulls).


Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Likes received: 418	#293 - 2012-09-17 17:53:39 UTC Well - Hopefully CCP will try to make long range weaponry viable for more than tier 3 battlecruisers and then a dampening bonus won't be bad... This does however also require more alpha for long range guns and perhaps less dps penalty for longer ranged ammo. As well as a look into certain game mechanics :-)

CCP Fozzie

C C P

C C P Alliance

Likes received: 14,980

#294 - 2012-09-17 18:01:59 UTC

Thanks to everyone why has been providing constructive feedback here, I really appreciate it.

Have a few tweaks to announce, they're all updated in the OP as well.

- Removed 10m3 dronebay and 10mbit bandwidth from the Bellicose, dropping it back to the 40m3 it has on TQ now. We may re-evaluate again in the future.

- Added a launcher hardpoint to the Arbitrator and Celestis

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Harvey James

The Sengoku Legacy

Likes received: 1,267

#295 - 2012-09-17 18:31:16 UTC

CCP Fozzie wrote:

cool but what about the having more structure than its main tank thing?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

CCP Fozzie

C C P

C C P Alliance

Likes received: 14,980

#296 - 2012-09-17 18:46:33 UTC

Harvey James wrote:

CCP Fozzie wrote:

cool but what about the having more structure than its main tank thing?

Adding structure is a way to add some more buffer to a ship without making it too much easier to remote rep them. It was a conscious choice in this case.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1,220
Warde Guildencrantz Caldari Provisions Caldari State Likes received: 1,220	#297 - 2012-09-17 18:49:04 UTC when can we expect the combat/attack cruisers TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Black Sheep Down Tactical Narcotics Team 220
MIrple Black Sheep Down Tactical Narcotics Team Likes received: 220	#298 - 2012-09-17 18:49:37 UTC Just one question. Will all the new t1 cruiser bonuses be applied to the T2 ships as well. Like with what ever changes happen to the Thorax will they also be applied to the Demois. Or will the bonuses be different?

CCP Fozzie

C C P

C C P Alliance

Likes received: 14,980

#299 - 2012-09-17 18:56:25 UTC

MIrple wrote:

Just one question. Will all the new t1 cruiser bonuses be applied to the T2 ships as well. Like with what ever changes happen to the Thorax will they also be applied to the Demois. Or will the bonuses be different?

They will not be automatically applied to the T2 ships. We will carry over bonuses as appropriate on a case by case basis.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

No Salvation Divine Damnation 4,453
Liang Nuren No Salvation Divine Damnation Likes received: 4,453	#300 - 2012-09-17 19:00:24 UTC 1 CCP Fozzie wrote: - Added a launcher hardpoint to the Arbitrator and Celestis Thanks, I think. You may want to consider bumping the CPU on the Arbitrator if you expect us to make use of that. -Liang I'm an idiot, don't mind me.