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Cybernetics
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Souisa
Subhypersonics
#1 - 2012-09-15 11:28:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
Hello,

Even though the first 4 levels of cybernetics are kind of fast to train, requiring level 5 for the +5's is a bit too much. You have to spend about a week going from level 4 to 5 even with +4 implants and good attributes. This is bad for newer and returning players, who basically cant progress while training for these. I dont know why they require training time, because it kind of defeats the purpose of them. Their real balance is their price, which is between 80-100 million each. So my suggestion would be to have the +5's require Cybernetics 4, +4's cybernetics 3, +3's cybernetics 2 and so on. Just so, when you can actually afford +5's you dont have to pause your training for a week just to be able to use them

o/
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#2 - 2012-09-16 20:34:03 UTC
Cybernetics does more than give you attribute implants.

+5s should not be easy to get; +5%s even less so. New players have to wait for them like we all did. +1/2/3s are easy to get, plus you can get a Cerebral Accelerator. That gives you +6 for 35 days (+7 if you get +4s).

Returning players should have trained it long ago. It is like training almost any skill to 6. With jump clones, that includes diverse weapons and defenses, even industrial applications.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#3 - 2012-09-16 22:24:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
I dont believe +5's should require cybernetics 5. It takes over 7 days to train for them with perfect attributes and +4's. This translates to 12 days for most people, because they dont have optimal attributes. Thats 12 days downtime where you dont get any other skills trained, and that kind of downtime was the reason they removed learning skills

o/
Sigras
Conglomo
#4 - 2012-09-16 22:26:17 UTC
because having to plan ahead and not getting instant gratification is a bad thing?
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#5 - 2012-09-16 22:36:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
I must admit i was disapointed to learn they required cybernetics 5. I was aiming to improve my training time, not halt it

o/
whaynethepain
#6 - 2012-09-16 23:00:02 UTC
My biggest gripe is that jump clones have a 24 hr cooling off period, so I rarely get to use implants in my main pilots, as I death clone about, and get podded frequently.

I sometimes get over 24 hrs notice of a combat operation, sometimes 10 mins, depends on the hostiles mostly.

I do usually throw in two +2's, but I have no intention of flying a full +5'd clone into combat in my Interdictor, not just yet. ISK KB efficiency and all that.

Also I would like to keep several implanted clones in one station, one for every occasion.

Waiting 24 hrs to jump from a combat clone to a mining clone is a little impractical. I could ask hostiles to only attack every other day, but that could be inconvenient for structure timers and such.

If my clone has +4 attribute implants, and I jump clone out every weekend for a combat fleet. I have gained nothing and spent many ISK milions in implants.

How about a 15 second jump clone timer?

Getting you on your feet.

So you've further to fall.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#7 - 2012-09-16 23:11:55 UTC
Souisa wrote:
I must admit i was disapointed to learn they required cybernetics 5. I was aiming to improve my training time, not halt it

Training skills is not the end all, be all goal of the game. Just strap yourself into a basic ship, use it to the best of your abilities, and learn the mechanics of the thing you are doing. In time you will be able to fly a better ship and your experience in the "basic ship" will carry over.

How did you Veterans start?
Canabi
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#8 - 2012-09-17 00:34:09 UTC
I think some of you are missing the point... He's complaining about having to train a single skill for 7 WHOLE DAYS!
Seriously. It's 7 days. One week. It is really not that long at all. I get excited when I have a skill that only takes 9-12 days to train. Such a short time in the Eve universe.
Dennis Gregs
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-09-17 02:07:36 UTC
Canabi wrote:
I think some of you are missing the point... He's complaining about having to train a single skill for 7 WHOLE DAYS!
Seriously. It's 7 days. One week. It is really not that long at all. I get excited when I have a skill that only takes 9-12 days to train. Such a short time in the Eve universe.

The problem with the current skill is that the implants (+5 to attributes only, not talking about hardwires) can actually require more time to train for than the time you will save from plugging them in. This clearly isn't right imo.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#10 - 2012-09-17 02:29:39 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Dennis Gregs wrote:
Canabi wrote:
I think some of you are missing the point... He's complaining about having to train a single skill for 7 WHOLE DAYS!
Seriously. It's 7 days. One week. It is really not that long at all. I get excited when I have a skill that only takes 9-12 days to train. Such a short time in the Eve universe.

The problem with the current skill is that the implants (+5 to attributes only, not talking about hardwires) can actually require more time to train for than the time you will save from plugging them in. This clearly isn't right imo.

In which case, you have to look at it from a "macro" point of view. One day here... another day there... 12 hours here... all shaved off. It adds up over a long period of time.
The trick behind the skill system is that you have to get rid of the whole "short term gains" mentality and start taking on a more "process"/"long term" one.

edit:
Also... if you're complaining about 7 day skills then you should probably take a moment to ask yourself if EVE is the right game for you. I've been doing 30 day skills for the last few months... I'm still trying to avoid doing those 60+ days skills for as long as possible.

How did you Veterans start?
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-09-17 02:45:39 UTC
the only people who use +5s are people in highsec or people who don't log in much. no need to change it.
khmervareman
Quebec's Underdog League
Quebec United Legions
#12 - 2012-09-17 04:33:39 UTC  |  Edited by: khmervareman
F*** +5 implant ... what about the different +4 and +5 maybe can just give u 1 hour more faster than +4 implant for a week ..lol
24 hour wait for jump clone to long ...15 seconde delay will be the best for null sec players and +4 implant for null sec players is to much isk and never safe .
15 seconde jump clone for null sec players .
+5 implant for hi sec players .

but i live in hi sec and i dont like wait 24 hour jumps clone . Lol
Lavitakus Bromier
WTF Bunnies
#13 - 2012-09-17 06:10:26 UTC
whaynethepain wrote:
My biggest gripe is that jump clones have a 24 hr cooling off period, so I rarely get to use implants in my main pilots, as I death clone about, and get podded frequently.

I sometimes get over 24 hrs notice of a combat operation, sometimes 10 mins, depends on the hostiles mostly.

I do usually throw in two +2's, but I have no intention of flying a full +5'd clone into combat in my Interdictor, not just yet. ISK KB efficiency and all that.

Also I would like to keep several implanted clones in one station, one for every occasion.

Waiting 24 hrs to jump from a combat clone to a mining clone is a little impractical. I could ask hostiles to only attack every other day, but that could be inconvenient for structure timers and such.

If my clone has +4 attribute implants, and I jump clone out every weekend for a combat fleet. I have gained nothing and spent many ISK milions in implants.

How about a 15 second jump clone timer?


I wouldn't say reduce it to 15secs but 1-5hour would be nice
Sigras
Conglomo
#14 - 2012-09-17 06:43:53 UTC
whaynethepain wrote:
My biggest gripe is that jump clones have a 24 hr cooling off period, so I rarely get to use implants in my main pilots, as I death clone about, and get podded frequently.

I sometimes get over 24 hrs notice of a combat operation, sometimes 10 mins, depends on the hostiles mostly.

I do usually throw in two +2's, but I have no intention of flying a full +5'd clone into combat in my Interdictor, not just yet. ISK KB efficiency and all that.

Also I would like to keep several implanted clones in one station, one for every occasion.

Waiting 24 hrs to jump from a combat clone to a mining clone is a little impractical. I could ask hostiles to only attack every other day, but that could be inconvenient for structure timers and such.

If my clone has +4 attribute implants, and I jump clone out every weekend for a combat fleet. I have gained nothing and spent many ISK milions in implants.

How about a 15 second jump clone timer?


Ill give you unlimited jumps as long as your in the station the clone is in, so you dont go anywhere . . .

How does that sound? because the last thing we need in Eve is to make fleet logistics easier . . .
Sigras
Conglomo
#15 - 2012-09-17 06:50:21 UTC
Dennis Gregs wrote:
Canabi wrote:
I think some of you are missing the point... He's complaining about having to train a single skill for 7 WHOLE DAYS!
Seriously. It's 7 days. One week. It is really not that long at all. I get excited when I have a skill that only takes 9-12 days to train. Such a short time in the Eve universe.

The problem with the current skill is that the implants (+5 to attributes only, not talking about hardwires) can actually require more time to train for than the time you will save from plugging them in. This clearly isn't right imo.

training the skill will never take more time than you can get back, because you can get a literally unlimited amount of SP back.

You gain SP at a rate of 1 per minute per primary attribute + .5 per minute per secondary attribute.

This means that you will get your SP back for cyber 4-5 in 421,490 minutes of having the +5 implants in.

Thats just under 293 days.

If you dont want to stomach that ROI, may i suggest a set of +4 implants?

Its called return on investment, in this game, those who think ahead, and are patient and smart enough to plan ahead get ahead,
and thats the way uh huh uh huh i like it
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#16 - 2012-09-17 12:26:10 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Dennis Gregs wrote:
Canabi wrote:
I think some of you are missing the point... He's complaining about having to train a single skill for 7 WHOLE DAYS!
Seriously. It's 7 days. One week. It is really not that long at all. I get excited when I have a skill that only takes 9-12 days to train. Such a short time in the Eve universe.

The problem with the current skill is that the implants (+5 to attributes only, not talking about hardwires) can actually require more time to train for than the time you will save from plugging them in. This clearly isn't right imo.

training the skill will never take more time than you can get back, because you can get a literally unlimited amount of SP back.

You gain SP at a rate of 1 per minute per primary attribute + .5 per minute per secondary attribute.

This means that you will get your SP back for cyber 4-5 in 421,490 minutes of having the +5 implants in.

Thats just under 293 days.

If you dont want to stomach that ROI, may i suggest a set of +4 implants?

Its called return on investment, in this game, those who think ahead, and are patient and smart enough to plan ahead get ahead,
and thats the way uh huh uh huh i like it


Yes your right:) it should take almost a year to "profit" from +5 implants

o/
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#17 - 2012-09-17 15:30:44 UTC
Souisa wrote:
Hello :)

This is bad for newer and returning players, who basically cant progress while training for these.


Seriously, you are 15 days into the game and are complaining about a one week training skill. You are really going ot hate things after a year or so....

Now let me make a suggestion, it may be a bit controversial, but here goes....

Maybe you dont need +5's quite yet.

Seriously, Eve is not about maxing out skills in the minimum amount of time, just play the game and not worry about skilling up a few minutes quicker.


OH and one other thing: "cant progress"
Hahahahaaaa!!!!!

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#18 - 2012-09-17 15:58:03 UTC
Souisa wrote:
Hello :)

Even though the first 4 levels of cybernetics are kind of fast to train, requiring level 5 for the +5's is a bit too much. You have to spend about a week going from level 4 to 5 even with +4 implants and good attributes. This is bad for newer and returning players, who basically cant progress while training for these. I dont know why they require training time, because it kind of defeats the purpose of them. Their real balance is their price, which is between 80-100 million each. So my suggestion would be to have the +5's require Cybernetics 4, +4's cybernetics 3, +3's cybernetics 2 and so on. Just so, when you can actually afford +5's you dont have to pause your training for a week, just to be able to use them.



L2PEVEKTHXBAI

Where I am.
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#19 - 2012-09-17 15:59:50 UTC
I got cybernetics 5 just so I can use pirate implants on the test server...

still loving it.

On TQ I use +4s all the time, nevr +5 nor pirate implants.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#20 - 2012-09-17 17:42:26 UTC
Souisa wrote:
I must admit i was disapointed to learn they required cybernetics 5. I was aiming to improve my training time, not halt it



Train your learning skills, noob. Twisted

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
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