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Myrmidon L3/L4 setup?
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Allophyl
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#1 - 2012-09-16 19:01:28 UTC
I know there are tons of fits out there for the Myrmidon already, but not really many that use the new drone upgrades yet, so I've been trying to put together a fit that makes good use of those, for L3 and L4 missions. Am I on the right track here?

[Myrm L3]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I
Armor Kinetic Hardener I
Armor Thermic Hardener I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

10MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I

250mm Prototype Gauss Gun,Antimatter Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun,Antimatter Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun,Antimatter Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun,Antimatter Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun,Antimatter Charge M
Drone Link Augmentor I

Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Drone Speed Augmentor I

Drones_Active=Hammerhead II,5
Drones_Inactive=Vespa II,5
Drones_Inactive=Hobgoblin II,5
Drones_Inactive=Hornet II,5
Keith Gavner
Nomura Industries
#2 - 2012-09-16 19:36:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Keith Gavner
You may want to look for a fairly different setup. Here is what I would recommend, it requires good drones skills as well as shield and autocannons but it's nice.

High
425mm Autocannon II
425mm Autocannon II
425mm Autocannon II
425mm Autocannon II

Medium
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Medium Shield Booster II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
10MN Afterburner II

Low
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

Rig Slots
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

10 hammerheads
10 hobgoblins

It would deal about 500 dps with perfect skills and hammerheads drones.
There may be better fits or more accessible or even with better cap stability but it doesn't look too bad.
Allophyl
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#3 - 2012-09-16 19:44:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Allophyl
I don't have decent skills for shield tanking yet. I do have the skills for armor tanking. So the shield tank would probably be a pretty big downgrade. Also, autocannons are short-range, which along with the Myrmidon's large size and low speed would make them pretty useless most of the time, especially given that it's a drone boat, wouldn't it? (Not to mention I also don't have projectile skills yet either)
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-09-16 19:57:51 UTC
While that would work well for L3s I'm not sure how it would do in L4s, and it could take some optimizing in and of itself.

First and foremost unless your control range is significantly less than 50km the DLA is a waste of a high slot given that the myrmidon's maximum skill-based target range is only 68.75km. The afterburner should mean you have little trouble staying within base control range of your opponents as well further negating the DLA's usefulness. Fitting another gun would be a more effective boost to your effective DPS. Furthermore if you add a sixth gun you can drop down a couple meta levels on guns, save some money, and still get more rDPS.

Personally though, at least for L3s I'd probably want to do a variant of this:
[Myrmidon, Forum Modified]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

10MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Drone Navigation Computer II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

200mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Ogre II x2
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1
Berserker II x2
Valkyrie II x2
Warrior II x1


200mm railguns : Less capacitor use per shot than the 250s, better tracking, only marginally lower DPS. The 4km lower optimal antimatter range isn't significant to me.
Dual rep : You can tank more damage in the absolute but with only two CR2s it's not cap-stable. It does, however let you get away with CCC rigs which...
CCC rigs : Armor rigs slow your ship down, 8.3% or so at a minimum, while CCC rigs also let you active shield tank the ship if you choose to ignore the rep. bonus.

If you replace the drone nav. CPU with another CR2 the ship should become nearly or completely cap-stable with everything firing. I Just mention this as pure data and not because cap-stability is inherently good or bad. Drone nav. CPUs, however, provide significantly better speed boosts than the drone rig version does so... /shrugs.

As for L4 missions, I'd probably have to consider shield-tanking it to make use of the low slots for damage mods. Only real problem with that idea is that CPU's tight for it. I'd also use ACs to provide close-in defense against frigates while your drones hammer bigger stuff farther out. The fact that shield-tanking wastes cap and ACs don't use any makes them a better choice than blasters or pulse lasers.

[Myrmidon, L4 Shield]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Co-Processor II

Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Domination X-Large Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Kinetic Deflection Field
Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field
Cap Recharger II

425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Ogre II x2
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1

Federation Navy afterburners and Domination XLSBs aren't terribly expensive or "blingy" and they're a bit better than T2, though in the AB's case it's a top speed of 444m/s to 434m/s. If you don't like the minimum tank possible with this build you can swap out the Gyros for a pair of PDS2s or a PDS2 and a DC2. If you're really concerned about the speed of the myrmidon and the short range of ACs you could also consider fitting webber drones, but that would require you to swap out your combat drones whenever mission damage requirements change or forgoe having spare drones.

If active tanking's not quite to your liking and you don't mind slower/steadier you might try:
[Myrmidon, New Setup 1]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Caldari Navy EM Ward Field
Caldari Navy EM Ward Field
Caldari Navy Thermic Dissipation Field
Caldari Navy Thermic Dissipation Field
Large Shield Extender II

720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake M

Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I


Ogre II x2
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1

Doing a suitable armor-tanked L4 build would really require either low DPS or faction/deadspace modules that cost a bit more than the ship's worth, per item, so I'll only post one on request.
Allophyl
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#5 - 2012-09-16 20:26:48 UTC
Thank you very much for the extremely helpful post, Shereza. Your dual-repping setup is definitely better than my setup, so I'll go that direction instead, and switch the third CR2 for a Nav Computer while swapping the drone rig for a CCC as you suggested. I do have one question regarding the DLA and guns though:

Base drone range is 45km, so the DLA will extend that out to 65km, just 1km shy of my targeting range in the Myrm. This means that for missions with rats that are very spread out or start far away, the shooting can start sooner. 6 200mms vs 5 250mms only gives 417 dps vs 402 dps, while they both use the same amount of cap. Will the extra 15dps be enough to make up for the time spent slowboating to get into range?

Also, for level 4 missions... would I just be better off getting into a Domi once I have the standings to do them and the money to buy one?
Keith Gavner
Nomura Industries
#6 - 2012-09-16 20:59:49 UTC
You will be better in a domi for l4. However, you can give it a try with your myrm at first. Some of the l4 can be done in a myrm, but it's going to be longer and less efficient.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-09-16 21:13:37 UTC
Allophyl wrote:
Base drone range is 45km, so the DLA will extend that out to 65km, just 1km shy of my targeting range in the Myrm. This means that for missions with rats that are very spread out or start far away, the shooting can start sooner. 6 200mms vs 5 250mms only gives 417 dps vs 402 dps, while they both use the same amount of cap. Will the extra 15dps be enough to make up for the time spent slowboating to get into range?


The electronic warfare drone skill gives you another 3km/level making 54km a pretty fast acquisition. Once you have that or EW drone 4 for 57km the increased range from the DLA is a lot smaller. That said the answer is yes and no. If all you're doing is chasing down stuff, literally since once you get inside a rat's orbit range it runs away from you, then not really, but if you use those guns to do things like knock out frigates or destroyers while the heavier stuff closes in on you then yes.

While it runs the risk of backfiring on you if you aggro multiple groups of enemies and send your drones after the big ships that are within your drone control range it gives you a good opportuntity to do the aforementioned small ship pounding while the larger ships close in. In those situations the afterburner isn't even really needed and can be replaced with another cap recharger or a tracking computer to boost your guns' range.

Barring that you could fit an MWD instead of an afterburner. If speed is more important/necessary than being able to use your speed booster to tank with it makes more sense to use an MWD, if you can afford the capacitor penalty, than an afterburner.

Allophyl wrote:
Also, for level 4 missions... would I just be better off getting into a Domi once I have the standings to do them and the money to buy one?


New, low-skilled players are almost always better off flying battleships when starting L4s. There are a few exceptions, but they tend to revolve around passive shield tanked drakes and myrmidons. If you plan on sticking up with hybrids/armor tanking then the dominix would be a very smart choice. At the very least doing a dual-LAR2 "super tank" build until you get used to L4s would be slow but fairly safe and effective.

[Dominix, Dual]
Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Drone Navigation Computer II

350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
Drone Link Augmentor I
[empty high slot]

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Ogre II x5

That should tank virtually any Serpentis/Guristas L4 if you get in over your head while still putting out a decent amount of raw damage. You can then move on to something like the following as you get more confident.

[Dominix, L4]
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

100MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Drone Navigation Computer II

350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Ogre II x5

Please note that I'm purposely omitting sentry drones. If you plan on making heavy use of sentry drones at some point take the time to train them up to T2 first. T1 sentry drones are, so far as I'm concerned, generally garbage and not worth using excepting for wardens in Guristas missions and Gone Berserk L4 where everything tends to spawn pretty far off. If you do get T2 sentries and make heavy use of them replacing any drone navigation computers with omni links would be a very good idea.
Allophyl
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#8 - 2012-09-16 21:23:37 UTC
Shereza wrote:
The electronic warfare drone skill gives you another 3km/level making 54km a pretty fast acquisition. Once you have that or EW drone 4 for 57km the increased range from the DLA is a lot smaller.


That is very good to know. I had no idea that skill increased drone control range, I'll have to train it up right away.

Shereza wrote:
Barring that you could fit an MWD instead of an afterburner. If speed is more important/necessary than being able to use your speed booster to tank with it makes more sense to use an MWD, if you can afford the capacitor penalty, than an afterburner.


Last time I had been playing, I believe it wasn't possible to use MWDs in most missions. Has this been changed?

And thank you very much for the Domi fits. I'll bookmark this thread for when I'm able to get into one and do level 4s
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-09-16 22:38:21 UTC
If the last time you played was over a year ago then your recollection would be correct. I don't recall when it was changed, it's probably in some patch notes somewhere, but within the last 6 or 12 months deadspace mechanics were changed to allow MWD usage in, AFAIK, all deadspace.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-09-16 23:15:43 UTC
75mb bandwidth is awkward ..

and on paper 2x Hvy, 2x Med 1x Lgt drone appear to offer maximum dps using all 75mb.

however,
Hvy drones can barely hit frigate sized ships at all
Lgt drones dont hit BS sized ships for any appreciable damage

5x medium drones is better.
Lili Lu
#11 - 2012-09-16 23:56:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Doing Lvl 4s in a Myrm has the same problem as doing them in a Drake. It will be slow. Add to this your tank will not be as robust as the Drakes anyway, and your Damage projection will be even less and more cumbersome.

Just stay with Lvl 3s with the Myrm. Gather the not so much isk it takes to buy a Domi. Put all your mods on a Domi, and get some rigs for it. You can put medium guns on a Domi, nbd. Train tech I large hybrids and sentrys. Sentry II drones are what you are aiming for. But in the meantime you can use lights to kill frigs, mediums to kill cruisers/BC, heavys to kill BSs. I almost always work my way up the ships from small to large (unless a trigger) for each group because it is the frigs that can actually be the most danger in scramming you.

Any tanking is possible with the Domi. It also has 5 mids so if pressed into it it can shield tank. I would advise armor tanking it though unless you want to spend more money and training on shield stuff. And a shield tank requires better drone skills since it means less room for omnidirectional(s).

At some point then after you have become used to running level 4s in your Domi you may want to get a Navy Domi or Rattlesnake. But do yourself a favor and start level 4s in a Domi. They will go much faster.Smile
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#12 - 2012-09-17 00:53:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Shereza wrote:
If the last time you played was over a year ago then your recollection would be correct. I don't recall when it was changed, it's probably in some patch notes somewhere, but within the last 6 or 12 months deadspace mechanics were changed to allow MWD usage in, AFAIK, all deadspace.

It's been more than 12 months. It changed either with the Incursion expansion, or just before it...late 2010 ish.


Also, there's nothing wrong with T1 sentries on a myrm, so long as you also bring some other drones to use. Optimal setup I think would be 3x garde, 5x hobgob, 5x hammerhead.

thhief ghabmoef
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-09-17 10:10:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Shereza
Kitty Bear wrote:
75mb bandwidth is awkward ..

and on paper 2x Hvy, 2x Med 1x Lgt drone appear to offer maximum dps using all 75mb.

however,
Hvy drones can barely hit frigate sized ships at all
Lgt drones dont hit BS sized ships for any appreciable damage

5x medium drones is better.


Medium drones are just as bad if not worse on frigates (not spider drones, frigates) as heavies are, and T2 heavies chew through frigates just fine. Frigate-based issues are why I suggested using the railguns or ACs to knock them out as well.

Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
It's been more than 12 months. It changed either with the Incursion expansion, or just before it...late 2010 ish.


Mmm, you're probably right. I bought a couple Core X-Type 100mn MWDs last year for some reason. Roll I really do hate forgetting small things like that.

Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Also, there's nothing wrong with T1 sentries on a myrm, so long as you also bring some other drones to use. Optimal setup I think would be 3x garde, 5x hobgob, 5x hammerhead.


Honestly, recommending T1 Garde drones is not a good idea in my opinion. By the time you have the skills and can fit the modules to make them worth using you probably can, and definitely should, use the T2 version instead. The only T1 sentry drones worth a damn are wardens and bouncers, and given the kin/therm hardener split on the OP's original myrmidon layout I'd guess that Wardens would be a good choice. They don't do the raw damage of Garde and they don't hit close-in stuff as well, but they do hit ships farther out harder than Garde will, and combat at range is what sentry drones are generally intended for.

Given that the OP is apparently doing Serpentis/Guristas/EoM/Mordus missions "optimal" to me would be 3 wardens and the 2/2/1 split. Hell, if the OP can use webber drones it might just be entertaining to use 2 ogres/hammerheads and a light webber drone, and I do mean entertaining, not optimal.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#14 - 2012-09-17 10:19:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
Bringing some gardes or wardens in your spare dronebay makes full sense, even if they're just T1. As they're stationary they're great at taking out stuff at range where normal drones would waste overal dps due to travel time. Also, using 2/2/1 is entirely silly in a pve fit.

[Myrmidon, LVL 3 - Serp Armor]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

10MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Garde II x3
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-09-17 10:22:16 UTC
I was using t1 sents (gardes/bouncers) and got to t2 just a coupe of months back. Although t2 sents are extremely good, t1 sents are not too bad really. Plus not everyone likes the 20-ish day train.

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.