Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Paladin is a so broken that its not even funny. It is outclassed in every possible way by the navy apoc and nightmare. Absolute waste of training time...

Paladin is fine, could use a bit more grid for when you want to fit tachs instead of pulse, but otherwise I have no complaints.

Although the low sensor strength is outdated and should be removed from all marauders.

I'm not excited by the 100% bonus to rate of fire..

The reason why I don't like that Idea is because the current damage buff of the golem means we use less ammo in order to take down the target, and the RoF keeps us from waisting as many volleys.

If you reduced the dps, then we'd have to fire twice as many volleys to take out the target, and torp ammo isn't exactly cheap.


Now, as far as range, I'd like to see the golem get 60km at all skills lvl 5 with javelin torps.

This then give the players the choice of using the rig slots for more range, more tank, more dps, or more cap...

I guess I'll give my 2 cents.
I worked out the math a while back and found out that about 5.5% boost to appropriate resists is about equal to the 7.5% rep amount they get right now. that would allow you to choose between active and buffer tanking.
then, there was the thing brought up with their sensors, I don't mind them having bad sensor strength to keep them away from PVP, but if they're going to do that, then please at least give us good scan res, something like 5-10% above their T1 counterpart.

for the kronos at least, this would fix some of the problems I've seen.

one thing that I remember seeing, and there was a hint at it in this thread, was NPC only effects. something like NPC ewar immunity or resistance. so that NPC ewar would only hit you for some percentage of what it would normally hit you for. this would mean that your sensor strength would seem awesome against NPC, but some player in an EWAR frig could come in and bring you to your knees.

That's kinda the thing

You can pick 1 bs, excluding tier 3 and the entire caldari tech 1 group, and you'll perform better and be more vesatile in missions than someone who has all 4 marauders to choose from.

This is due to all the Marauders having the same weaknesses (being tanking, size, speed, and sensors), however, on top of having the same groups weaknesses, they also have their own personal weaknesses.

For instance

The Golem's personal weaknesses are, requiring 3 target painters to have truly effective dps against frigs and cruisers, yet once the frig/cruiser is in orbit, the damage still fall significantly.

T2 missiles have penalties for using them.

Limited mid slots, so tanking and fitting target painters is a bit challenging and requires a lot of isk investment into ded space mods to make up for the lack of slots.

Limited range on torps requires either taking up yet another mid slot with a propulsion mod, or requires a lot of isk investment and SP investment in order to maximize torpedo range, which includes t2 range rigs, and this is still barely just enough for lvl 4 missions.

Limited cap making the fitting of stable tanks extremely difficult and requiring a lot of slots towards cap. It also can't be done because your rig slots are dedicated to range. So, in order to fit a cap stable tank, you'd lose a ton of dps, range, and effective dps.

Now, I'm not sure which individual weaknesses the other marauders have cause I haven't flown them, but I can say when you're flying the golem it's personal weaknesses shine very bright in every mission of any type.

People complain that the torpedos have too little range, but did you notice that all other marauders have about the same range?
First it is with t1 close range ammo, second is with t2 range ammo:
Paladin Pulse Laser: 15,0 km +10,0 km 482 dps, _45km + 10km 452 dps
Kronos Ion Blaster:__ 3,8 km + 10,0 km 553 dps, 11 km + 14km 507 dps
Vargur 800mm ac:__ 3,0 km + 36,0 km 462 dps, _6 km + 54km 423 dps
Golem Torpedos: __________ 30,4 km 499 dps, ______ 45km 449 dps
(no moduels fitted, all lvl5)

Looks fine for me, can someone explain what is wrong with the torps? Note that you can always change the dmg type to the one you need, an advantage you should consider.
If you want to have higher range with the Golem just take cruise missiles, same as with gun marauders, if you want higher range take long range guns.
If you want to use torps in a golem for max damage, fit a mwd to get into range. The only drawback the Golem has, is that there is no module to increase the range of missiles.

edit: CCP just announced that tracking **** will affect missile flight time aswell, so i see no valid point in whining about torp range anymore, please correct me if i am missing a point. Also heavy missile are nerfed, means tengus etc. will lose they superiority in PVE.

Haven't read all replies, but I and have flown all 4. In order of preference.

Worth using:

1. Vargur. Works as well as the mach. Whatever it loses in DPS it makes up for in tank and salvage. It does amazing DPS anyways. Used in Minmatar and Amarr Lvl 4s, maybe the other 2 I can't remember.

2. Golem. Bareily use the shield booster nice tank. Good DPS on larger ships. Used in Gallente Lvl 4s.

3. Paladin. Works well all around. Good DPS at medium range(pulse). Used in Amarr and Caldari Lvl 4s.

Not worth using:

4. Kronos. Looks good. That's it, it's pure shat! Used on Gallente, Amarr and Minmatar Lvl 4s. Sensor strength sucks on all 4.

Forever to lock and perma jammed if you go against caldari.

uhh, not sure what you're using, but I'm getting way different numbers all skills V


Paladin
Mega Pulse Laser II
Conflagration - 618 dps @ 15+10
Scortch - 442 dps @ 45+10

Vargur
800mm Repeating Artillery II
Hail - 593 @ 3+27
Barrage - 423 @ 6+54

Kronos
425mm Railgun II
Javelin - 467 @ 18+30
Spike - 267 @ 130+30

Golem
Torpedo Launcher II
Rage - 639 @ 27
Javelin - 449 @ 45.6

Now, the max range of any NPC's orbit that I have ever seen in a lvl 4 mission is 51 km.

Paladin has 55, Vargur has 60, Kronos has 48 and 160, golem has 45.6.
However, missiles have acceleration time, so it's more like 41 km for the golem max range.

This means the Golem is the only Marauder that requires range rigs on top of max skills in order to reach npc max orbit range.
With both rigs slots fitted with t2 range rigs, then it get about 56km after missile acceleration.

This means that the Golem loses the use of the rig slots for anything else. This means is suffers in either cap, tank, dps, or whatever else you might want to fit while the other Marauders maintain this capability.

the fact that a nightmare can get 1100+ out to 50km.

I've used them all w/lvl 5 skills at times, imo the golem is the worst because of 2 things, cycle time on painters and the need to fit 3 of them and the tiny range on torps, thus restricting you to range rigs. Perhaps the latter will be changed when they change TE/TC's (but I wouldn't hold my breath), but painters remain the problem. When painters first came out their bonuses were much larger, CCP felt this was op and nerfed them into the useless level we have now - and have never looked back. They remain CCP's joke (i.e. the joke's on you for using them) even their names - (P.W.N., P.W.N.D., P.W.N.T., P.W.N.A.G.E.) are part of the joke.

They need a 4 second cycle time and their bonuses need to be significantly buffed (or change the ship bonus to 15% per level for all ships w/a TP bonus).