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ASB changes
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Recoil IV
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-09-14 16:29:50 UTC
people complain about how powerfull asb is when in fact it isnt.its powerfull in first 30 seconds of perma usage and when the cap boosters run out.well **** hits the fan and you loose a ship.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#42 - 2012-09-14 16:36:41 UTC
Recoil thanks for that well-thought argument and excellent presentation.

However, it's better to fit a Myrm with dual XLASBs than with dual LARs. I mean if you could fit dual LARs on it, they would still be worse. That's a hull that gets a bonus to armor rep strength, by the way.

.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#43 - 2012-09-14 16:41:46 UTC
Roime wrote:
Recoil thanks for that well-thought argument and excellent presentation.

However, it's better to fit a Myrm with dual XLASBs than with dual LARs. I mean if you could fit dual LARs on it, they would still be worse. That's a hull that gets a bonus to armor rep strength, by the way.



Hell, it's better to fit a myrm with dual XL ASBs than it is to fit triple deadspace reps (a-type) with T2 rigs.

-Liang

Ed: And I mean that in every single way. All the way to tank longevity.

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-09-14 16:43:38 UTC
Recoil IV wrote:
people complain about how powerfull asb is when in fact it isnt.its powerfull in first 30 seconds of perma usage and when the cap boosters run out.well **** hits the fan and you loose a ship.


Its the dual ASB fits that are broken, single ASB are still extremely potent but like you said, they run out after 30-40 seconds which i think CCP intended.

Crystals, boost bonus from ship, tengu links, make dual ASBs nothing short of godly, demi god if you dont have a boost bonus on your ship :P

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-09-15 02:17:30 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:
Recoil IV wrote:
people complain about how powerfull asb is when in fact it isnt.its powerfull in first 30 seconds of perma usage and when the cap boosters run out.well **** hits the fan and you loose a ship.


Its the dual ASB fits that are broken, single ASB are still extremely potent but like you said, they run out after 30-40 seconds which i think CCP intended.

Crystals, boost bonus from ship, tengu links, make dual ASBs nothing short of godly, demi god if you dont have a boost bonus on your ship :P


This. There is a recent 26+ page thread here already discussing this. And another recent thread discussing potential armor/shield balance. So, without going into detailed discussion again:

Nerf dual ASB, balance armor, nerf offgrid boosting. \o/

IMHO.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#46 - 2012-09-15 13:48:14 UTC
I'd still be a lot more scared and certainly say to my self "got fcked" if Lokis could use those too.

brb
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#47 - 2012-09-18 10:12:11 UTC
Roime wrote:
noiserevbus, not sarcastic but bitter :D

Seriously though and on topic, I couldn't find any better Dev post than this one by Paradox:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1908377#post1908377
Quote:

For the ASB changes, we will make a thread over on the Test Server Feedback forums when the time comes. As the blog said, from about 18th September onwards you will see the thread, and we will engage in feedback there to the design changes that come. I won't go into details here, as it isn't yet the time or place to do it.

Thanks!


So changes are coming, more info next week!



Bumping because of 18th

.
feihcsiM
THE B0YS
#48 - 2012-09-18 10:38:45 UTC
Recoil IV wrote:
people complain about how powerfull asb is when in fact it isnt.its powerfull in first 30 seconds of perma usage and when the cap boosters run out.well **** hits the fan and you loose a ship.


Nothing stopping you fitting an XLASB directly in place of an expensive standard booster.
By that I mean keeping the usual cap booster etc on a rokh/mael/other pvp fit and just swapping out the repper and setting auto reload off. When the charges in the repper run out you still have a beastly tank as long as you have cap, and you will still have your cap injector for that.
Sure, once the ASB is out of charges it's around 30% less efficient in terms of cap used/shieldHP than, for instance, a Cal Navy XLSB, but still gives 30% more HP per boost cycle to compensate somewhat.
A ship with a single XLASB running out of charges in the ASB doesn't necessarily always mean insta death.

It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.
Iyica de Tylmarand
Doomheim
#49 - 2012-09-20 09:46:31 UTC
feihcsiM wrote:
Recoil IV wrote:
people complain about how powerfull asb is when in fact it isnt.its powerfull in first 30 seconds of perma usage and when the cap boosters run out.well **** hits the fan and you loose a ship.


Nothing stopping you fitting an XLASB directly in place of an expensive standard booster.
By that I mean keeping the usual cap booster etc on a rokh/mael/other pvp fit and just swapping out the repper and setting auto reload off. When the charges in the repper run out you still have a beastly tank as long as you have cap, and you will still have your cap injector for that.
Sure, once the ASB is out of charges it's around 30% less efficient in terms of cap used/shieldHP than, for instance, a Cal Navy XLSB, but still gives 30% more HP per boost cycle to compensate somewhat.
A ship with a single XLASB running out of charges in the ASB doesn't necessarily always mean insta death.

The majority of ASB ships do not have a cap booster except for perhaps the Rokh which needs it so it can use its guns. A Rokh with max cap skills and a Heavy Cap Booster injecting navy 800s will only be able to support 29 seconds of an XLASB running on cap. If I was that Rokh pilot I wouldn't do more than 3-4 boosts without charges or I wouldn't be able to run my invulns/mwd or even my guns. That's pretty much death.

Single ASB IMO is balanced. It requires you to either fight hit and run (running while charges are reloading), which requires skill (e.g. avoid tackle so you can actually retreat during the reload) or it requires very high DPS to take things out before you reload. I think this is great PvP. Permatanking an entire gang with dual XLASB on the other hand is not great (from the perspective of maximising fun for both sides of the fight).
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#50 - 2012-09-20 20:02:36 UTC
Didn't notice if this has already been posted here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1943554&%20#post1943554
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#51 - 2012-09-20 23:15:27 UTC  |  Edited by: S Byerley
Iyica de Tylmarand wrote:
Permatanking an entire gang with dual XLASB on the other hand is not great (from the perspective of maximising fun for both sides of the fight).


If by perma-tanking you mean tanking for the span of a few dozen cap boosters. Based on my napkin math, a cyclone could only keep dual XLASB's going for ~2 minutes not including reload.

Why is it that no one factors in how blasted space expensive boosters are? I really don't follow.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#52 - 2012-09-21 17:32:23 UTC
I think we can expect the ASB to stick around in much its current shape, other than to limit it to one per ship. One of thier stated goals is to make pvp and pve more similar in terms of fits, and part of that difference is the gap between active and buffer tanks.

I'd love to see a new armor repaired that provided a passive repair rate while off, and a huge + cap draining rate while on.
Superior Glokta
Inner Melody
#53 - 2012-09-21 23:45:37 UTC
Roime wrote:
CCP aknowledges the issues with armor tanking, and that is why they introduced ASBs.

In the next balancing pass they will reduce the fitting requirements of ASBs, because it's currently impossible to fit dual XLASBs on frigates.

They will also seed a new armor module, that requires cap, makes your ship slower, uses most of your grid and CPU, requires a new skill to be trained and doesn't actually do anything.


Off to EFT my new Myrmidon with this new module. Will it have a corresponding rig with a ship mass penalty?
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#54 - 2012-09-22 17:24:07 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:
Its space and this is a game, so dont bother with saying "its logical that more armor slows you down" because you are correct, but for balance sake its sucky


Logical to slow down acceleration. That is a consequence of added mass. EvE's propensity to punish top speed via mass is illogical.

There is no valid reason that armor tanking ships should be 'slower' than shield tanking ships... until they start maneuvering.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#55 - 2012-09-23 22:46:30 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:
Its space and this is a game, so dont bother with saying "its logical that more armor slows you down" because you are correct, but for balance sake its sucky


Logical to slow down acceleration. That is a consequence of added mass. EvE's propensity to punish top speed via mass is illogical.

There is no valid reason that armor tanking ships should be 'slower' than shield tanking ships... until they start maneuvering.


Because in Eve there's no space, just some weird liquid.

brb
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#56 - 2012-09-24 01:24:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Confirming that BattleCruisers with >1200 DPS tanks are a little excessive when there are no Faction, Complex, Officer fittings involved and the ship can still dps and have enough EHP to ignore Alpha.

edit: ..and that's the Meta 0 version.Lol
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