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The future of Community and CCL

First post First post
Author
Pipa Porto
#561 - 2012-09-14 01:28:28 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
These are private forums and CCP have extended the right to limit what gets posted upon them.
In order to do so, the terms of usage state in no-uncertain terms that they reserve the right to Edit, Limit or remove any content posted to the forums at their discretion.


Where did anyone claim otherwise? We're just calling out ISD Eshtir on his insistance that a spade is, in fact, a fork.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Smee1
Safety Set To Red
Train Wreck.
#562 - 2012-09-14 12:00:55 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=153773&find=unread

My point exactly. We must sit back like mutes and let idiots with powertrips moderate as they like no questions.

I get it now we must not have opinions the ISD dont agree with or it gets moderated right out the door.

These forums are getting unreadable with every other post sniped for trivial reasons. Its utter bull and now i cant voice my concerns or opinions on said forum cause the idiots just lock it.
Smee1
Safety Set To Red
Train Wreck.
#563 - 2012-09-14 12:06:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Smee1
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Hi,

I'd like to put this down in simple terms without resorting to word-play to make points here.

One of the jobs of the CCL team is to enforce CCPs mandated terms of usage via the forum rules.

These are private forums and CCP have extended the right to limit what gets posted upon them.
In order to do so, the terms of usage state in no-uncertain terms that they reserve the right to Edit, Limit or remove any content posted to the forums at their discretion.

I encourage you to read the Forum Rules and in particular the Website Terms of use.

Thanks, and as always, please fly safe.


Moderate what needs moderated and quit the bull snipping that makes the ability to follow a thread impossible. Wind ur neck in from ur newly found powertrip and do your job. All i see is CENSORING and removing ppls freedom of speech.

Also might make it easier if there was a wiki link with stuff we actually are allowed to discuss on here. Just read those rules and they are a joke, posting a wiki with what we are allowed to talk about would only take up 1/4 of the page. I'll copy a definition of forum from a dictionary

- forum [ˈfɔːrəm]
n pl -rums, -ra [-rə]
1. a meeting or assembly for the open discussion of subjects of public interest
2. a medium for open discussion, such as a magazine
3. a public meeting place for open discussion

Maybe renaming this to a message board instead of a forum would be a better idea because u meet none of the criteria above ccp
Anslo
Scope Works
#564 - 2012-09-14 12:11:46 UTC
Pipa Porto for CSM.

On a serious note, the censorship is getting to be a bit much. You can't hide behind the guise of "it's company policy." That's as bad as the banks we have to deal with every day when they pull out some hidden fee.

As a small business so involved with its community and so willing to listen to it, work with it, and have a beer with it, you should consider something; If a large portion of your paying customer base has a problem with a policy, review the policy.

It wouldn't take a massive amount of resources to research into policy implementation for ISD and forum rules, make it more robust, more detailed, or even less detailed. It's just a matter of going back to the underlying machine driving these unwarranted bans and saying, "Hmmm...maybe this rule is a little to open to interpretation."

And, I'm sorry to be rude but, just saying "It's a private forum and it's our policy" is equivalent to "deal with it." Why not just get rid of ship spinning again and show players the door? You're doing it verbally, just go all out.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#565 - 2012-09-14 12:58:13 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Suvetar
Smee1 wrote:


These forums are getting unreadable with every other post sniped for trivial reasons. Its utter bull and now i cant voice my concerns or opinions on said forum cause the idiots just lock it.


Just do what I do, when that happens. Tell yourself the players just don't deserve to hear what you have to offer. They just aren't grown up enough, or just enjoy childish endeavors too much still. (Helps explain the threads about avatars)

Also try to look at the bright side of things more often. Why just this evening, ISD, inspired me to start adding rumor mongering to my repertoire. That is something, I thought I never would be. It is indeed a sandbox now, it is indeed a sandbox.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Skogen Gump
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#566 - 2012-09-14 13:01:19 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Smee1 wrote:


These forums are getting unreadable with every other post sniped for trivial reasons. Its utter bull and now i cant voice my concerns or opinions on said forum cause the idiots just lock it.


Umm, apart from violating the no swearing rule - what are you doing right now?

You're voicing your concerns and opinions on 'said forum' and you haven't been locked or censored have you?

No, didn't think so.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#567 - 2012-09-14 13:07:45 UTC
For example in my last post which I was being a terrible troll, and doing rumour mongering. I linked this article.

About growing up

Which is an interviewish article with CCP saying, how them growing up helped them handle their problems better with dealing with the community. Perhaps we too should learn from this, and grow up a little bit. But First I practice or hopefully attempt to learn new skills, then I shall ride the train of maturity till the tracks end.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Hiro Ceffoe
State War Academy
Caldari State
#568 - 2012-09-14 13:31:02 UTC
This is funny...

I find that CCP have purposefuly fostered smacktalking, scamming, and general poor behaviour as a key point in there game with slogans such as "HTFU"

But now they are having to take measures to prevent this very thing on there own forums.

"You cannot play God then wash your hands of the things you created"

You created this playerbase CCP, did you not see this coming?

So my question is this, considering the current state of your forums and all you have encouraged over the years in an attempt to set yourselves apart from other game companies, was it worth it?

In addition, and more on track for this forum, It was mentioned by a member of the ISD earlier in this thread that they play the game and that you may see them in game and not know it, in light of this what guarantee do you provide that in-game vendettas will not spill over into the forum, and I won't be punished for blowing up an ISD volunteer for example.
ISD Praetoxx
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#569 - 2012-09-14 13:52:08 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Praetoxx
Just for the record, I would like to add that the CCL team is watched very closely by CCP and if/when required, CCP will intervene should they feel it necessary, this includes speaking with CCL members IF they should step over the line. We do not have free reign on the forums to moderate threads as we please. CCP has laid down strict rules and policies that all ISD members agreed to follow and uphold when they volunteered to join the program, this includes having our main characters closely monitored by CCP for any hint of foul play or breach of the rules. We are governed by exactly the same rules as everyone else.

Like you, we love the game and love the community. We are trying to do our part to make it better for everyone.

To some pilots, it may seem like we are just abusing our 'powers' and editing threads/posts as we see fit. This is not the case and could not be further from the truth.

EVE Online has a PEGI 12 rating, and as such, CCP have a legal obligation to ensure that any content contained within the game (forums/website included) is suitable for persons aged as young as 12 years old. EVE provides a great opportunity for families to enjoy the game and above all else, EVE Online provides an escape from all the stresses that RL throws at us. Why would you want to come home after a long day at the office, just to sign onto the forums to read a bunch of threads that seem to represent your day at the office.

Come home, UNPLUG from the hectic day, and enjoy your evening blowing up space ships, or mining an asteroid belt with your corporation. Explore the depths of a wormhole you just discovered. Leave all the aggro and stress at the door.

The next time your post/thread is moderated. Take a good look at it and have a think about why it was moderated. How would others view it, would they be offended? Is it suitable for a 12 year old? Is it even understandable?

I hope I have been successful in defusing alot of the hate and misunderstanding toward the ISD's. Please take a moment to try and understand that what we are doing is for the benefit of the entire community. Even 12 year old Timmy who cannot wait to fly his first Falcon.

Fly safe and post smart!

ISD Praetoxx Lieutenant Community Communication Liasons (CCLs) Interstellar Service Department

Anslo
Scope Works
#570 - 2012-09-14 14:04:52 UTC
ISD Praetoxx wrote:
Just for the record, I would like to add that the CCL team is watched very closely by CCP and if/when required, CCP will intervene should they feel it necessary, this includes speaking with CCL members IF they should step over the line. We do not have free reign on the forums to moderate threads as we please. CCP has laid down strict rules and policies that all ISD members agreed to follow and uphold when they volunteered to join the program, this includes having our main characters closely monitored by CCP for any hint of foul play or breach of the rules. We are governed by exactly the same rules as everyone else

Like you, we love the game and love the community. We are trying to do our part to make it better for everyone.

To some pilots, it may seem like we are just abusing our 'powers' and editing threads/posts as we see fit. This is not the case and could not be further from the truth..


And I'm sure CCP does moderate you. I and others are in no way saying you moderate as a method of vendetta for other actions in game or question your love of Internet Spaceships. You and the ISD/CCL are doing your jobs and you're following the policies set forth to you and doing so damn well. It's not necessarily you, but the policies themselves that CCP set forth that may have issues

Quote:
EVE Online has a PEGI 12 rating, and as such, CCP have a legal obligation to ensure that any content contained within the game (forums/website included) is suitable for persons aged as young as 12 years old.


The ESRB does not rate online interactions. I can't speak for PEGI, but at least in the states, the forums and content made by other players, whether E, T, or M rated content, is not your responsibility (legally anyway...to an extent i.e. pr0nz, gore, etc)

Quote:
EVE provides a great opportunity for families to enjoy the game and above all else, EVE Online provides an escape from all the stresses that RL throws at us. Why would you want to come home after a long day at the office, just to sign onto the forums to read a bunch of threads that seem to represent your day at the office.


The threads aren't really representative as a day of the office though. People fight and debate, and do it for fun. Some people simply enjoy debating for the sake for the sake of it. Why not let them to an extent? And there again in lies the problem; policy and definition of what is and is not acceptable may be too broadly defined and not exact enough.


Quote:
The next time your post/thread is moderated. Take a good look at it and have a think about why it was moderated. How would others view it, would they be offended? Is it suitable for a 12 year old? Is it even understandable?


Again, rage threads or threads questioning game action, the community, or individual action does not call for censoring for the kids. Online interactions and content does not and should not be censored. You are responsible for the game content, the actual game, not our speech.

Quote:
Even 12 year old Timmy who cannot wait to fly his first Falcon.

And you say you do it for the kids...for shame...

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Hiro Ceffoe
State War Academy
Caldari State
#571 - 2012-09-14 14:14:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Hiro Ceffoe
ISD Praetoxx wrote:
...


The problem is CCP created a product that generally is stressful, difficult and hectic, they don't discourage suicide ganking for example which is lets face it only a means to annoy others, they encourage scamming and other anti-social activities, and have slogans like I said before "HTFU" do you consider this slogan appropriate for 12 year old players?

As I see it, this community is exactly what CCP fostered it to be, so did they make a mistake? Are the ISD a prelude to major game changes/company changes in the future to bring the game closer to the 12 year old rating?

Quote:
EVE Online provides an escape from all the stresses that RL throws at us. Why would you want to come home after a long day at the office, just to sign onto the forums to read a bunch of threads that seem to represent your day at the office.


I feel the opposite, In my office everyone is nice and polite because it's a proffesional prerequisite, I come to EVE because it is harsh and unforgiving, people in EVE may hate me and I may hate them but it's all in a sandbox where nobody gets hurt. If I don't want that in a game I would go play a different game.

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is, CCP need to settle on a direction before they can presume to tell there playerbase what that direction is, you cannot foster cruelty and then complain when people are cruel.
ISD Praetoxx
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#572 - 2012-09-14 14:18:06 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Praetoxx
I understand your points of view and thank you for the constructive posts.

ISD Praetoxx Lieutenant Community Communication Liasons (CCLs) Interstellar Service Department

Hiro Ceffoe
State War Academy
Caldari State
#573 - 2012-09-14 14:24:26 UTC
ISD Praetoxx wrote:
I understand your points of view and thank you for the constructive posts.


And thank you, good luck in your post as ISD.
Anslo
Scope Works
#574 - 2012-09-14 14:34:38 UTC
Hiro Ceffoe wrote:

I feel the opposite, In my office everyone is nice and polite because it's a proffesional prerequisite, I come to EVE because it is harsh and unforgiving, people in EVE may hate me and I may hate them but it's all in a sandbox where nobody gets hurt. If I don't want that in a game I would go play a different game.

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is, CCP need to settle on a direction before they can presume to tell there playerbase what that direction is, you cannot foster cruelty and then complain when people are cruel.


All of my this. Are we HTFU Online or Hello Kitty Online? Or are we a balance of the two?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

ISD Praetoxx
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#575 - 2012-09-14 14:55:19 UTC
Hiro Ceffoe wrote:
ISD Praetoxx wrote:
I understand your points of view and thank you for the constructive posts.


And thank you, good luck in your post as ISD.


My place or yours? Lol

ISD Praetoxx Lieutenant Community Communication Liasons (CCLs) Interstellar Service Department

Hiro Ceffoe
State War Academy
Caldari State
#576 - 2012-09-14 15:08:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Hiro Ceffoe
ISD Praetoxx wrote:
My place or yours? Lol


Depends, did CCP furnish you with shiny new digs
or
Is it one of those places with the leaky celing?

I sense continuation of this conversation would be considered innapropriate for EVEs target audience P

Anslo wrote:
All of my this. Are we HTFU Online or Hello Kitty Online? Or are we a balance of the two?


I think there is a middle ground, personally I don't believe a product that requires a subscription should be rated below a minimum of age 16 because once real money becomes involved in any way the stakes become higher, of course I don't know how many of EVE players fall in the 12-16 category so...

At the end of the day, if CCP want the game to be a dark universe full of danger, scams and well... bastards then thats fine and they should reflect that in ALL media and continue to make game changes accordingly, if they want it to be more casual well thats fine too, but they need to stop advertising it as a dark and dangerous game and maybe make more game changes on the PVE front and advertise them more, and if CCP want a middle ground, a little bit of both, they need to become more neutral as a company and spread there development accordingly.

Ask anyone who doesn't play EVE what EVE is like, ask the players who DO play EVE what EVE is like, this IS what EVE is like, changing rules on the forums will NOT change what EVE is like it will only make the forums more disconnected from EVE, and if CCP want the forums to be part of EVE this is not the way to go.

People play EVE for PVP, conflict and drama because thats what EVE does well, trying to make the forum without that doesn't do justice to the game.

Just the way I see it.

I got a little carried away.
MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
#577 - 2012-09-14 16:57:44 UTC
Ban all ISDs!!!!!!!!!!!!!
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#578 - 2012-09-14 17:11:37 UTC
ISD Praetoxx wrote:


EVE Online has a PEGI 12 rating, and as such, CCP have a legal obligation to ensure that any content contained within the game (forums/website included) is suitable for persons aged as young as 12 years old.


Wait, wait, excuse me while I get my laughter and tears under control... ok.. thanks.

Frankly there is NO WAY EVE should be played by anyone younger than 16, and I'd even say 18 would probably be appropriate. The game itself is okay for 12 year old, but the in-game community is a septic minefield. I've seen/heard every form of debauchery known to the human race displayed in the game. As an earlier poster mentioned - CCP reaps what it sows.

Which brings in a very, very interesting question - anyone want to take a guess how the fan is going to take the incredibly huge incoming hit from Dust? It's one thing to have mature content programmed into a game, it's another when a parent sees' or hears EVE's chat channels played out on the home big screen by EVE's best trollers (not to overlook the real ped's that are there as well).



RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#579 - 2012-09-14 17:21:37 UTC
Answer me this... I recetnly commented on a post about F2P inwhich I mentioned World Of Tanks and how much fun it is to play then I typed "W_O_P" with no space between letters which stands for World of Planes and guess what it was censored. Why was that censored on my post Im really curious. I understand some moderation but for crying out loud

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom

Smee1
Safety Set To Red
Train Wreck.
#580 - 2012-09-15 00:22:11 UTC
ISD Praetoxx wrote:
Just for the record, I would like to add that the CCL team is watched very closely by CCP and if/when required, CCP will intervene should they feel it necessary, this includes speaking with CCL members IF they should step over the line. We do not have free reign on the forums to moderate threads as we please. CCP has laid down strict rules and policies that all ISD members agreed to follow and uphold when they volunteered to join the program, this includes having our main characters closely monitored by CCP for any hint of foul play or breach of the rules. We are governed by exactly the same rules as everyone else.

Like you, we love the game and love the community. We are trying to do our part to make it better for everyone.

To some pilots, it may seem like we are just abusing our 'powers' and editing threads/posts as we see fit. This is not the case and could not be further from the truth.

EVE Online has a PEGI 12 rating, and as such, CCP have a legal obligation to ensure that any content contained within the game (forums/website included) is suitable for persons aged as young as 12 years old. EVE provides a great opportunity for families to enjoy the game and above all else, EVE Online provides an escape from all the stresses that RL throws at us. Why would you want to come home after a long day at the office, just to sign onto the forums to read a bunch of threads that seem to represent your day at the office.

Come home, UNPLUG from the hectic day, and enjoy your evening blowing up space ships, or mining an asteroid belt with your corporation. Explore the depths of a wormhole you just discovered. Leave all the aggro and stress at the door.

The next time your post/thread is moderated. Take a good look at it and have a think about why it was moderated. How would others view it, would they be offended? Is it suitable for a 12 year old? Is it even understandable?

I hope I have been successful in defusing alot of the hate and misunderstanding toward the ISD's. Please take a moment to try and understand that what we are doing is for the benefit of the entire community. Even 12 year old Timmy who cannot wait to fly his first Falcon.

Fly safe and post smart!