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Ship rebalancing is pointless and a waste of time.

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Drew Solaert
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2012-09-14 08:07:13 UTC
I for one love the ship balancing

Not only is it adding more options, it opens up the meta again and has got people thinking about fleet comp again. Take the new logistics frigates they are going to make frig roams deadly, and allow a far wider range of engagements than previously possible.

The new disruption cruisers, while I'm still not sold on the 2x attacky ones (Arbi and Belli) and 2x full ewar ones (Celes and BB) I think they'll add some interesting dynamics and will add more value to a newer member. (And as for the Belli, step over Caracal, there is a new frigate bane out there)

And as for the current and suggested frigs that have be rebalanced, well just damn. They are all kinds of fun, and finding and plotting new fits for them has been just as fun.

I lied :o
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2012-09-14 08:10:02 UTC
Ah, the old "nothing will ever be perfect, so why even try" argument.

So amusing.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#63 - 2012-09-14 08:23:30 UTC
Candidate for worst OP in GD September 2012

Before tiericide: tons of crappy ships
After tiericide: tons of awesome ships that will bring a massive amount of FRESH into New Eden.

This means pure win to everybody, except maybe you. This is not just creating new FOTMs (which will evolve even without continuous balancing work btw), but a revolution in fleet comps.

I for one welcome our wonderful new T1 ships, and frankly haven't been this excited about any expansion before.



.
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2012-09-14 08:47:03 UTC
OP is maybe just mad that he lost his old mining frigate.

Seriously though, a game like this evolves and it cannot evolve if everything remains static.
Josef Djugashvilis
#65 - 2012-09-14 08:58:22 UTC
Roime wrote:
Candidate for worst OP in GD September 2012

Before tiericide: tons of crappy ships
After tiericide: tons of awesome ships that will bring a massive amount of FRESH into New Eden.

This means pure win to everybody, except maybe you. This is not just creating new FOTMs (which will evolve even without continuous balancing work btw), but a revolution in fleet comps.

I for one welcome our wonderful new T1 ships, and frankly haven't been this excited about any expansion before.





This would only hold to be true if james 315 pages of tosh, does not post about his weird thing with miners again.

This is not a signature.
Alayna Le'line
#66 - 2012-09-14 09:33:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Alayna Le'line
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ah, the old "nothing will ever be perfect, so why even try" argument.

So amusing.


Homer said it best

"It's ok, kids, you tried your best and you failed. The lesson is: never try."
--Homer J. Simpson

Blink
Doddy
Excidium.
#67 - 2012-09-14 10:11:54 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Just No


Lol. Why not? Are you afraid of the training wheels being taken off and you being responsible for how your ship actually functions?


Yep, because without balancing and new ships everyone would have been flying stabbabonds for the last 7 years. Except they wouldn't cos no one would play that broken crap and the game would have died in 2006 or something.

in any case your premise is entirely flawed, all ships in eve have been designed with a role always. If you had actually read the ship descriptions you would know that. All that ccp is doing with this rebalancing is refining them. Post balancing people will be just as likely to use fits outwith the role as they are now, the difference will be that some hulls will not be automatically worse to use regardless because they are a lower tier. Balancing the ships while removing tiers will actually make it far more likely players will try new fits and new ways of flying a ship.

And the "against the sandbox" stuff is crap as well. Eve is a sandbox, ccp provides us with the sand and the walls. If they change the amount of sand or the height of the walls its still a sandbox.



CCP is not giving you the sand and the walls, ccp is placing you on rails and telling you what to do. The mining barge changes are the most recent egregious example of this. Hulk is for null, retervier is for afk mining, skiff is for tank, this one is for yield, that one is for safety...

.


Except you are wrong, there are people using procurers for afk mining, hulks for hi sec, retreivers for ops and so on. And to be frank it was worse before the balancing when it was even more "on rails" - skiif is for mercoxit, makinaw is for ice, hulk is for ore. That was far more restricted than it is now.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2012-09-14 10:20:59 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Just No


Lol. Why not? Are you afraid of the training wheels being taken off

npc corp

Not emptyquoting.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#69 - 2012-09-14 12:42:12 UTC
I think ccp is just trying to get the broken ships not be broken. Like when was the last time you saw an Exequrer used in pvp? Or anything for that matter other than a newbie's first cruiser?
Skogen Gump
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2012-09-14 12:44:47 UTC
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:
[quote=Aiwha]

You forgot Invasion Iteron.


That just sounds rude :D
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#71 - 2012-09-14 12:45:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Tronic
If CCP didn't balance the game, everyone would be flying minmatar still. Balance is needed to bring ships in line with other game changes. Many of the ships being updated haven't been touched for more than 5 years. The game population and environment were far different back then.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#72 - 2012-09-14 13:34:17 UTC
Ensign X wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Just No


Quoting this reply as it has as much logic and intelligence as the original post.


QFT
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#73 - 2012-09-14 13:54:25 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
OP is maybe just mad that he lost his old mining frigate.

Seriously though, a game like this evolves and it cannot evolve if everything remains static.




Its supposed evolve due to player action not because the devs keep changing the rules.

I am happy for some occassional changes. Sure it can add variety to the game.


It is starting to get a bit ridiculous how often they are changing the rules. It used to be that experience piloting counted for something. You learn what ships can and can't do well from months and years of flying with and against them. Now with new game changing modules and ship changes coming out every 2 weeks that is no longer the case.

Might as well learn to play an entirely new game.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2012-09-14 13:57:33 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
The mark of a theme park mmo is the constant rebalancing efforts engaged in by their developers

I stopped reading right there because you clearly have no clue what you are talking about whatsoever.

Have a nice day.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#75 - 2012-09-14 14:08:19 UTC
Dear OP

Contract me all your stuff then biomass yourself

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Morgan North
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#76 - 2012-09-14 14:14:29 UTC
I'm up for rebalancing, even if it brings new FOTM. In a certain way this is what keeps the eve universe alive. Thre's always that ship that's marginnally better than the rest of its class, and a group of players that go out of their (read, th usual) way to bring these down. This rebalancing will change and shift the power base, and it'll take a while, probably around a year or so, for player tofully optimize builds and experiment to their hearts content. Afterall, this rebalance has left the players for a few years of playing well and good, eve with obvious unbalanced hulls.

I'm up for a new rebalancing, even if its just to make every player existing today to alter their perspective on this or that hull, without turning anything into a solo pwnmobile.

So, its neither a waste of time (as it promotes a fluid experience that players need to re-learn at the cost of ship losses), nr pointless (Else some of the ships will steadilly raise in price due to deman and in the long run, everythign else will jsut simply be stopped being built).

If anything, some of the offensive system my also be tweaked, further altering the way things work nowadays.

Interesting times!
Ezra Tair
Doomheim
#77 - 2012-09-14 17:01:14 UTC
I always wanted to make a game like ever were players could design their own ships for use, and pay *something* for a design to be submitted, reviewed and created in game by the devs, and released as a low run BPC.

So that the entire game would be populated by unique ships (or mostly unique at lest), and a meta-game of ship design between players would develop enriching the sandbox.

Eve has this now to an extent (drakes vs HACs vs hellcats) but it would be cool if it was more ingrained into the core aspcets of a game.
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2012-09-14 17:08:06 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
The mark of a theme park mmo is the constant rebalancing efforts engaged in by their developers to achieve the mythical land of perfect balance between their various characters. These efforts, however, never work and always lead to the rise of a new flavor of the month which in turn leads to new rounds of whining on the forums by the fans of the various classes of characters and ultimately new rounds of balancing by the developers. Hence, an endless cycle of nerfing and buffing is engaged in that usually leaves more people dissatisfied then happy.

Eve as a sandbox type game should be immune from this sort of nerf/buff cycle, and yet the dev's have jumped into a full scale round of re-balancing. This re-balancing is fundamentally anti-sandbox. CCP is going so far as to actually tell us which hulls are for tank, which dps, which hulls are for null (eg the hulk), which are for afk mining (eg reteriver), etc. . . Ultimately, none of this balancing will work as all it will do is create new flavors of the month, which will, in turn, force new rounds of nerfs/buffs.



Meh, their should be efforts to balance the ways people optimize their ships/fleets/doctrines.

A Nano, passive shield fleet should, in some circumstances be vulnerable to an active armour tank fleet and vice versa.

The min/maxers have already developed the main doctrines in their respective areas. I see this balancing more in line with having the varoius types of min/max ships/fleets/doctrines fit into a rock paper scissor formula based on skill, positioning and intelligence.

So I understand what you are saying about freedom etc but I think the reblancing efforts here are just making the choices we all already make more clearly defined and balanced on the whole.
Din Chao
#79 - 2012-09-14 17:22:44 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
I think ccp is just trying to get the broken ships not be broken. Like when was the last time you saw an Exequrer used in pvp? Or anything for that matter other than a newbie's first cruiser?

Gas harvesting. But yeah, other than that...
Taranius De Consolville
Doomheim
#80 - 2012-09-14 17:52:37 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Just No


Lol. Why not? Are you afraid of the training wheels being taken off and you being responsible for how your ship actually functions?



So what ur saying is and this is EXACTLY what your saying...

Lets leave loads of ships useless and never used

Lets keep bringing out so many new ships that eve has thousands of cruisers and battle crusiers etc

Lets ignore the massive market crash that would follow

I pay for eve therefore it is done my way

My response?

**** off back to wow

oh and

Post with your main coward :)