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[Winter] EW Cruisers

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Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#41 - 2012-09-13 20:42:23 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
wat? have you lost it? maybe i don't understand , are you gving a non ore ship a random never to be used drone bonus to mining?


The whole beauty of drone boats is that they can do a little bit of everything. There are mining drones, so why shouldn't drone boats get bonuses to use them? ORE barges tend to pack combat drones for self-defense.

If CCP really wanted to go nuts, they'd throw in a generous bonus to mining drone velocity per level. For those with Gallente or Amarr Cruiser 5 there might even be a use for Harvesters, at long last.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
June Ting
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#42 - 2012-09-13 20:43:48 UTC
What am I supposed to do with that extra low slot on the Celestis? I'd imagine some damping equivalent to Signal Distortion Amplifier would make the Celestis shine a bit better, but as is there's not very many things that buff damp strength :/

I fight for the freedom of my people.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#43 - 2012-09-13 20:46:22 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I'd rather have a Blackbird that concentrates all its jammers on one ship be closer in power to the Celestis than the other way around, however yeah there is more that needs to be done with damps.
Fair enough. That would entail bumping… (ehm… squashing?) the bonuses for the BB down. P

But yes, either way, the problem just repeats itself when we come to the recons (and ewar frigates), so yes, the damps probably need something on their own as well. Still, the advantage of doing it with the ships is that the modules don't suddenly become ubiquitous — it's not like we see a lot of ECM fitted to normal ships outside of jamming drones.
Karmu Ivanostrov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-09-13 20:47:10 UTC
June Ting wrote:
What am I supposed to do with that extra low slot on the Celestis? I'd imagine some damping equivalent to Signal Distortion Amplifier would make the Celestis shine a bit better, but as is there's not very many things that buff damp strength :/


Wouldnt an Armor tank be viable allowing for full use of ewar in mids? ECCM maybe to better fight off Blackbirds?
Ark Anhammar
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-09-13 21:05:15 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Celestis:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness
10% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener optimal range
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 5 M, 5 L (+2), 3 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 575 PWG, 375 CPU (+50)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(+27) / 1300(+11) / 1700(+411)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1300(+175) / 463s(+63s) / 2.8 (-0.01)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 210(+29) / 0.505(-0.06) / 12070000 / 5.7s (+0.7)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10)/ 50(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km(+10) / 290(+2) / 8(+2)
Sensor strength: 18 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 135
Cargo capacity: 320


Now maybe if they can buff the Celestis' appearance....
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#46 - 2012-09-13 21:05:52 UTC
Aaron Greil wrote:
Not sure how I feel about the bellicose having a full drone bay. Two ewar ships, okay, but three reeks of too much homogenization. Bring the bellicose down, at least one medium drone. The balance team also added tons of drones to frigate hulls, it feels like gallente's specialization is being entirely eclipsed. The vexor, with only 75 bw (which most people only use a flight of mediums anyway) loses its advantage in the cruiser realm. A similar thing is true with the thorax.




The Bellicose needs a full drone bay to compete with the Arbitrator for small gang/solo work. The Arbitrator has damage via drones, freeing up its highslots for things like nuets and probe launchers, the Bellicose is balanced against this by having shipboard DPS via missiles, but utility projection via drones. It seems balanced to me.

As for drones on the blackbird, honestly, I think that's fine, its DPS is so much that of a wet noodle atm, that you could give it a full set of mediums and it probably would still be weak DPS wise.

Fear and Loathing in Internet Spaceships
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#47 - 2012-09-13 21:06:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
why does the bellicose have more structure than shields?
Also cruisers need more speed and EHP across the board if you want to see more increased use
and the blackbird has same shields as structure why?
And arbitrator has more structure than armour

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#48 - 2012-09-13 21:12:55 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Arbitrator:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
Slot layout: 4 H, 4 M, 5 L (+1), 2 turrets, 1 launcher
Fittings: 575 PWG, 325 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100(+84) / 1500(+132) / 1600(+232)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+313) / 490s(+108.75s) / 2.8 (+0.02)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 200(+41) / 0.56(-0.05) / 11200000 / 5.9s (-0.5)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 150
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 285(+3) / 7(+1)
Sensor strength: 15 Radar (+3)
Signature radius: 130
Cargo capacity: 345


What to fit in the Arbitrator's high slots has always mystified me. What are you proposing is a "good" fit for the Arbitrator's high slots with 2 utility highs? Also, the extra low might need some more grid. The extra sensor strength is much appreciated.

Quote:

Blackbird:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength
10% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal range and falloff
Slot layout: 4 H, 6 M, 3 L (+1), 3 turrets, 3 launchers
Fittings: 525 PWG, 425 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1400(-6) / 1200(+145) / 1400(+267)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1250(+187.5) / 445s(+63.75s) / 2.8 (+0.02)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 190(+9) / 0.48(+0.025) / 13190000 / 5.9s (+0.3)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10(+10) / 10(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 85km(+10) / 230 / 8
Sensor strength: 20 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 150
Cargo capacity: 305


Until you tell us what's up with the ECM mechanics, there's no way to comment on this ship. Provided the ECM mechanics stay the same, I kinda like it. At least, as much as I can abide by any boost to an ECM ship. :)

Quote:

Celestis:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness
10% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener optimal range
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 5 M, 5 L (+2), 3 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 575 PWG, 375 CPU (+50)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(+27) / 1300(+11) / 1700(+411)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1300(+175) / 463s(+63s) / 2.8 (-0.01)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 210(+29) / 0.505(-0.06) / 12070000 / 5.7s (+0.7)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10)/ 50(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km(+10) / 290(+2) / 8(+2)
Sensor strength: 18 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 135
Cargo capacity: 320


This is certainly interesting. It kinda wrecks one of my main uses of the Celestis (anti-falcon ECCM'ed up blaster ship) but it's probably not great of a loss. The 5 low slots is certainly interesting. I... think I like it? Maybe?

Quote:

Bellicose:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness
5% bonus to Rapid Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire
Slot layout: 4 H (-1), 5 M (+1), 4 L (+1), 4 launchers
Fittings: 575 PWG, 360 CPU (+110)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1400(+150) / 1200(-11) / 1500(+289)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1200(+262.5) / 427.5s(+92.5s) / 2.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+31) / 0.51 / 11550000 / 5.5s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10)/ 50(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 42.5km / 300(+7) / 7
Sensor strength: 14 Ladar (+3)
Signature radius: 120 (+10)
Cargo capacity: 315

[/quote]

Behold the new anti-frigate Caracal.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-09-13 21:17:44 UTC
Aaron Greil wrote:
Not sure how I feel about the bellicose having a full drone bay. Two ewar ships, okay, but three reeks of too much homogenization. Bring the bellicose down, at least one medium drone. The balance team also added tons of drones to frigate hulls, it feels like gallente's specialization is being entirely eclipsed. The vexor, with only 75 bw (which most people only use a flight of mediums anyway) loses its advantage in the cruiser realm. A similar thing is true with the thorax.


We should wait on commenting on whether or not the vexor will be eclipsed until the stats for it are released.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Sofia Wolf
Ubuntu Inc.
The Fourth District
#50 - 2012-09-13 21:29:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Sofia Wolf
I think Bellicose and Arbitrator need longer sensor rage to get full potential out of their e-war. Give to each some ~15 km sensor range .

Jessica Danikov > EVE is your real life. the rest is fantasy. caught in a corporation. no escape from banality. open up yours eyes, peer through pod good and seeeeeee. I'm just a poor pilot, I need no sympathy. because I'm easy scam, easy go, little isk, little know. anyway the solar wind blows...
Alara IonStorm
#51 - 2012-09-13 21:29:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Liang Nuren wrote:

What to fit in the Arbitrator's high slots has always mystified me. What are you proposing is a "good" fit for the Arbitrator's high slots with 2 utility highs? Also, the extra low might need some more grid. The extra sensor strength is much appreciated.


-Liang

I personally want Medium Neutralizers / NOS to drop to 100ish Grid so they will be more fittable to Cruisers and have the Arbitrators base Grid brought to 800 and base Capacitor to around 1500.

That and finally add a third bonus to Disruption Cruisers and Frigates, each get 1 EWAR Bonus, 1 DMG Bonus and 1 secondary EWAR Bonus governed by the Electronic Warfare Skill.

The Disruption Frigates all getting their Range Bonus so they can be highly mobile and hard to catch and Cruisers with their heavier tank getting a secondary bonus that makes them better in closer ranges in the fray. IE 7.5% Warp Disruption Range Celestis, 5% Capacitor Drain Bonus Arbitrator, 7.5 or 10% Web Range Bonus Bellicose and for the Blackbird besides range umm... Jammer Cap use or something.
Karmu Ivanostrov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-09-13 21:31:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Karmu Ivanostrov
Alara IonStorm wrote:
I personally want Medium Neuttralyzers / NOS to drop to 100ish Grid so they will be more fittable to Cruisers and have the Arbitrators base Grid brought to 800 and base Capacitor to around 1500.

That and finally add a third bonus to Disruption Cruisers and Frigates, each get 1 EWAR Bonus, 1 DMG Bonus and 1 secondary EWAR Bonus governed by the Electronic Warfare Skill.

The Disruption Frigates all getting their Range Bonus so they can be highly mobile and hard to catch and Cruisers with their heavier tank getting a secondary bonus that makes them better in closer ranges in the fray. IE 7.5% Warp Disruption Range Celestis, 5% Capacitor Drain Bonus Arbitrator, 7.5 or 10% Web Range Bonus Bellicose and for the Blackbird besides range umm... Jammer Cap use or something.


Even tough Im up for buffing T1 Cruisers... Adding such a bonus would trample on Combat Recon's roles
Alara IonStorm
#53 - 2012-09-13 21:42:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Karmu Ivanostrov wrote:

Even tough Im up for buffing T1 Cruisers... Adding such a bonus would trample on Combat Recon's roles

Why do you think that?

Rapier can fire webs out to 60km, my Bellicose to 20km
Curse has 4X the Neut Bonus and 200% more Range
Aruzu has 2x the extra Interdiction Range
Falcon has twice the Jammer Strength.

What is more the T2 versions have T2 Tanks, More Slots and half of them are invisible.

Saying it tramples on anything is like saying the Cyclone tramples on the Sleipnir because they bonus have Projectile Dmg and Shield Boosting or the Caracal on the Cerb because they both do Missile Damage and Range. The T1 versions being worse versions of T2 ships is not a bad thing.
Pliskkenn
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#54 - 2012-09-13 21:47:31 UTC
The synergy of TP and potentially HAMs on a Bellicose looks tasty, if a little tight to fit.
Karmu Ivanostrov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-09-13 21:49:19 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Karmu Ivanostrov wrote:

Even tough Im up for buffing T1 Cruisers... Adding such a bonus would trample on Combat Recon's roles

Why do you think that?

Rapier can fire webs out to 60km, Bellicose to 20km
Curse has 4X the Neut Bonus and 200% more Range
Aruzu has 2x the Interdiction Range
Falcon has twice the Jammer Strength.

What is more the T2 versions have T2 Tanks, More Slots and half of them are invisible.

Saying it tramples on anything is like saying the Cyclone tramples on the Sleipnir because they bonus have Projectile Dmg and Shield Boosting or the Caracal on the Cerb because they both do Missile Damage and Range. The T1 versions being worse versions of T2 ships is not a bad thing.


Didnt run the proper numbers as Im at work, Im sorry =)
However I think they want to keep those bonuses for the T2s as specialist bonuses..
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-09-13 21:54:15 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
why does the bellicose have more structure than shields?
Also cruisers need more speed and EHP across the board if you want to see more increased use
and the blackbird has same shields as structure why?
And arbitrator has more structure than armour

Each ship got at least +1 low slot and has a lot of structure im thinking this might be a hint to use a damage control on these ships, but i could be reading in to it too much.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#57 - 2012-09-13 21:58:36 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Blackbird:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength
10% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal range and falloff
Slot layout: 4 H, 6 M, 3 L (+1), 3 turrets, 3 launchers
Fittings: 525 PWG, 425 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1400(-6) / 1200(+145) / 1400(+267)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1250(+187.5) / 445s(+63.75s) / 2.8 (+0.02)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 190(+9) / 0.48(+0.025) / 13190000 / 5.9s (+0.3)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10(+10) / 10(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 85km(+10) / 230 / 8
Sensor strength: 20 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 150
Cargo capacity: 305
Erm... Please reassure us again that you are going to beat ECM with crowbar. Otherwise this might be a bit overpowered. Thought you guys figured out that range bonus AND strength were a bad combo on ECM cruisers when you nerfed the Falcon & Rook.


CCP Fozzie wrote:
Celestis:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness
10% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener optimal range
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 5 M, 5 L (+2), 3 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 575 PWG, 375 CPU (+50)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(+27) / 1300(+11) / 1700(+411)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1300(+175) / 463s(+63s) / 2.8 (-0.01)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 210(+29) / 0.505(-0.06) / 12070000 / 5.7s (+0.7)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10)/ 50(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km(+10) / 290(+2) / 8(+2)
Sensor strength: 18 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 135
Cargo capacity: 320
Til we see what you are gonna do with damps, it is still a teaming pile of fecal matter no matter what you do to it. Sorry. :-/


CCP Fozzie wrote:
Bellicose:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness
5% bonus to Rapid Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire
Slot layout: 4 H (-1), 5 M (+1), 4 L (+1), 4 launchers
Fittings: 575 PWG, 360 CPU (+110)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1400(+150) / 1200(-11) / 1500(+289)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1200(+262.5) / 427.5s(+92.5s) / 2.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+31) / 0.51 / 11550000 / 5.5s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10)/ 50(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 42.5km / 300(+7) / 7
Sensor strength: 14 Ladar (+3)
Signature radius: 120 (+10)
Cargo capacity: 315
Drone bay seems kinda high for a Minnie cruiser. But should be a fun ship.


Liang Nuren wrote:
What to fit in the Arbitrator's high slots has always mystified me. What are you proposing is a "good" fit for the Arbitrator's high slots with 2 utility highs?
Obviously a Small Smartbomb and an Auto-Targeter. DUH! F-ing noob!
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#58 - 2012-09-13 22:06:33 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:

Liang Nuren wrote:
What to fit in the Arbitrator's high slots has always mystified me. What are you proposing is a "good" fit for the Arbitrator's high slots with 2 utility highs?
Obviously a Small Smartbomb and an Auto-Targeter. DUH! F-ing noob!


I was really hoping for an extra turret and some more grid. The extra low slot is pretty good too, but the grid is kinda mandatory no matter what.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
LtCol Laurentius
The Imperial Sardaukar
#59 - 2012-09-13 22:16:52 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
Erm... Please reassure us again that you are going to beat ECM with crowbar. Otherwise this might be a bit overpowered. Thought you guys figured out that range bonus AND strength were a bad combo on ECM cruisers when you nerfed the Falcon & Rook.



The BBs bonuses are unchanged.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#60 - 2012-09-13 22:18:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
Liang Nuren wrote:
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:

Liang Nuren wrote:
What to fit in the Arbitrator's high slots has always mystified me. What are you proposing is a "good" fit for the Arbitrator's high slots with 2 utility highs?
Obviously a Small Smartbomb and an Auto-Targeter. DUH! F-ing noob!


I was really hoping for an extra turret and some more grid. The extra low slot is pretty good too, but the grid is kinda mandatory no matter what.

-Liang


I think the Arbitrator needs another med so it can dual prop dual TD's and LP as its supposed to be combat And i was hoping to finally see T1 cruisers make an impact on the bc domination going by these disruption cruisers i think i might be some what disappointed i really hope the attack cruisers can save the day MORE SPEED MORE TANK MORE DPS!!!! PLEASE!!!

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using