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[Winter] EW Cruisers

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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2012-09-13 18:57:28 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Ytterbium
And we're back with another set of rebalanced T1 cruisers. These are the Disruption cruisers, inexpensive ewar platforms.
We're revamping the t1 ewar cruisers with similar goals to the t1 ewar frigates. We want to focus two of them for pure ewar with range bonuses (Blackbird and Celestis) and build two of them into more hybridish ewar brawlers that fit very well into small gangs (Arbitrator and Bellicose).

:Updated September 17th with details available here:

Arbitrator:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
Slot layout: 4 H, 4 M, 5 L (+1), 2 turrets, 2 launchers (+1)
Fittings: 575 PWG, 325 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100(+84) / 1500(+132) / 1600(+232)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+313) / 490s(+108.75s) / 2.8 (+0.02)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 200(+41) / 0.56(-0.05) / 11200000 / 5.9s (-0.5)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 150
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 285(+3) / 7(+1)
Sensor strength: 15 Radar (+3)
Signature radius: 130
Cargo capacity: 345


Blackbird:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength
10% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal range and falloff
Slot layout: 4 H, 6 M, 3 L (+1), 3 turrets, 3 launchers
Fittings: 525 PWG, 425 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1400(-6) / 1200(+145) / 1400(+267)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1250(+187.5) / 445s(+63.75s) / 2.8 (+0.02)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 190(+9) / 0.48(+0.025) / 13190000 / 5.9s (+0.3)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10(+10) / 10(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 85km(+10) / 230 / 8
Sensor strength: 20 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 150
Cargo capacity: 305


Celestis:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness
10% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener optimal range and falloff
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 5 M, 5 L (+2), 3 turrets, 3 launchers (+1)
Fittings: 575 PWG, 375 CPU (+50)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(+27) / 1300(+11) / 1700(+411)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1300(+175) / 463s(+63s) / 2.8 (-0.01)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 210(+29) / 0.505(-0.06) / 12070000 / 5.7s (+0.7)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10)/ 50(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km(+10) / 290(+2) / 8(+2)
Sensor strength: 18 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 135
Cargo capacity: 320


Bellicose:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness
5% bonus to Rapid Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire
Slot layout: 4 H (-1), 5 M (+1), 4 L (+1), 4 launchers
Fittings: 575 PWG, 360 CPU (+110)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1400(+150) / 1200(-11) / 1500(+289)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1200(+262.5) / 427.5s(+92.5s) / 2.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+31) / 0.51 / 11550000 / 5.5s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 40 / 40
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 42.5km / 300(+7) / 7
Sensor strength: 14 Ladar (+3)
Signature radius: 120 (+10)
Cargo capacity: 315

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#2 - 2012-09-13 19:01:29 UTC
These actually look pretty good. I feel the Arbitrator definitely has a bit of a combat edge over the others though, simply because it deals its damage with drones, thus freeing up the highslots for utility like nuets. As the others lack that, they don't have quite the utility strength that the Arbitrator does. Perhaps look at changing that or building that utility strength back into the others so its still balanced?

Fear and Loathing in Internet Spaceships
AlexHalstead
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-09-13 19:07:12 UTC  |  Edited by: AlexHalstead
Bellicose's skill bonuses certainly give a strong feeling of synergy with each other hah.
I see what you did with the Celestis's skill bonuses. It give similar feeling as the Blackbird's bonuses.

Edited: Okay after giving some serious thoughts; Why is the Bellicose the only disruption cruiser to have a bonus that's purely weapon related? Artbitrator's drone bonus also benefit the EW/Disruption Drones (HP bonus), not just damage and mining yield for other drones.
Heribeck Weathers
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-09-13 19:09:00 UTC
I feel the BB is about the same (not that i expected diferant) but the drone bay and another low may make it a better armor tanker LOL

*gose and buys a bunch of Bells becuase they look like they will be hella fun to try*

And the arbitrator looks about the same but definatly more solid so over all better surviveability in a fight.

Cels... fix damps
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#5 - 2012-09-13 19:09:27 UTC
I think TPs will need to get buffed before the Bellicose will really shine. If TPs outright increased applied damage, it would put it in line with the Arbitrator, which can use its utility highs to fit neuts and turn off an opponents tank.

Fear and Loathing in Internet Spaceships
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc
#6 - 2012-09-13 19:09:53 UTC
I love the new blackbird capacitor. This will be very nice for newbees flying them in our fleets.

Also, the others look good to me (way better bonuses than before)
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#7 - 2012-09-13 19:19:32 UTC
I'm distinctly unimpressed with these changes you need to go much further with these especially speed/tank slots the arbitrator should have 4 turrets/launchers mix

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Julius Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-09-13 19:19:35 UTC
The damp bonus on the Celestis is, to put it diplomatically, underwhelming.

Unless my math is wrong, we're talking about going from just under 60% targeting range dampening, to just under 66% with the new bonuses. This is with max skills in EFT and a fully boosted Eos. I'd hardly call a 6% increase the solution to fixing damps as they are now, and unless you all are planning on doing much stronger bonuses for the Arazu/Lachesis, the damper module will continue to be laughed at and ignored for EVE pvp, as much if not moreso than it is now.

I think a bonus of 10% per level would be far better, keeping it from being too OP but not completely gimped as it is now.
LtCol Laurentius
The Imperial Sardaukar
#9 - 2012-09-13 19:20:52 UTC
Looks good and in line with the previosuly stated design goals. Some questions though:

- Why does the Arby retain its mining bonus to drones?
- Whats the reasoning behind giving the celestis the higest sensor strengt of the 4 ships? At 20, its even better than caldari battlecruisers.
- The Blackbird and Celestis are designed for ranged EW-support, so whats the reasoning behind the increased dronebay on the Celestis?
Alara IonStorm
#10 - 2012-09-13 19:23:04 UTC
I think you should push up the Belli's base PG up to 600 as to allow it to fit HAM's, LSE, MWD without a fitting Mod at max skill.
Julius Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-09-13 19:24:59 UTC
LtCol Laurentius wrote:

- Whats the reasoning behind giving the celestis the higest sensor strengt of the 4 ships? At 20, its even better than caldari battlecruisers.


Because of Falcon.




Had to do it lol.
Loius Woo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-09-13 19:26:06 UTC
Awesome!
mkint
#13 - 2012-09-13 19:28:21 UTC
Lol mining drones
Lol damps

Ewar is broken. A polished turd is still a turd.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-09-13 19:29:23 UTC
Looks good, but does the arbitrator need a mining drone yeald boost still?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Karmu Ivanostrov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-09-13 19:30:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Karmu Ivanostrov
LtCol Laurentius wrote:
- Whats the reasoning behind giving the celestis the higest sensor strengt of the 4 ships? At 20, its even better than caldari battlecruisers.


Maybe it is to fight ECM with Damps..

Harvey James wrote:
I'm distinctly unimpressed with these changes you need to go much further with these especially speed/tank slots the arbitrator should have 4 turrets/launchers mix


I believe most people now a days fit neuts on the spare highs of the Arbi.. The cap is getting boosted too so that might be the reason you dont see more turret/launchers there
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#16 - 2012-09-13 19:31:19 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
LtCol Laurentius wrote:
Looks good and in line with the previosuly stated design goals. Some questions though:
- Why does the Arby retain its mining bonus to drones?

We didn't see any reason to remove it.

LtCol Laurentius wrote:
- Whats the reasoning behind giving the celestis the higest sensor strengt of the 4 ships? At 20, its even better than caldari battlecruisers.

There was a typo in the initial post. Blackbird is 20, Celestis is 18. Got it fixed now, thanks. Both are still high as we like the ewar ships to have generally higher sensor strength than the combat ships.

LtCol Laurentius wrote:
- The Blackbird and Celestis are designed for ranged EW-support, so whats the reasoning behind the increased dronebay on the Celestis?

Because we always want to leave the door open to creative uses for the ships, and a bit more bandwidth seemed to work well to give the ship more options.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
AlexHalstead
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-09-13 19:35:15 UTC
I still have to ask, isn't there any other bonus that suit the disruption role better than the Launcher ROF for Bell?
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#18 - 2012-09-13 19:35:50 UTC
How about changing the Celestis defense to be:

Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100(-73) / 1400(+111) / 1700(+411)

?

Would make both the "armor" ships have the same shield and the only difference would be armor and hull? I'm suggesting this without knowing your reasons for the other numbers so it might not be valid, but since this is going to be flow as a armor ship it would make sense to mirror the other one.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#19 - 2012-09-13 19:36:05 UTC
So with the inevitable offgrid mindlinked link T3, a rigged Arbitrator will have TDs that each have -92.25% to optimal or tracking? Wow.


(hope those numbers are right Roll)
Karmu Ivanostrov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-09-13 19:36:42 UTC
AlexHalstead wrote:
I still have to ask, isn't there any other bonus that suit the disruption role better than the Launcher ROF for Bell?


As stated, Bell and Arbitrator are being tailored for smaller gangs in which their dps contribution is important. Thats why you see 1 dps and 1 EW bonus, while Blackbird and Celestis have 2 EW bonuses and no dps bonus
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