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[Winter] Support Cruisers

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Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#201 - 2012-09-13 10:56:19 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

If they are given a remote tracking bonus then it would be a real slap in the face as these are cheaper, and do 70~80% of a t2 logo ship.

That become interesting. T1 ship are supposed to be generalized and T2 specialized. I fear these ships will fail at being generalized, their only hope being their slots and turret number ; so what portion of power of their T2 counterpart would allow them to not be obsoleted ? 20-30% is already a large margin. T1 should not only be a steping stone, we should have reasons to fly them, and all the balance difficulty will lie in tweaking this margin correctly.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2012-09-13 11:53:22 UTC
Calsys wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

The T1 ships are set up for medium reps not large. If you have decent fitting skills you can fit 1 large rep on them


what?

i can fit TWO large reps at osprey with two LSE meta4, two shield adaptives t2, mwd, dc t2, which is equal T2 logist but MUCH cheaper than t2 logy and repair some more (~1100 (3 reps with 360 each) vs ~1300 (TWO REPS WITH 640 EACH)).

discuss.

And what will youd capacitor useage be like? I know there is no way in hell it will be stable.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Deena Amaj
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#203 - 2012-09-13 11:54:30 UTC
Don't forget that the T2 counterparts will also be looked at as well. Right now, changes like these on T1 are damn essential. Logistic Ships will still be the smarter choice for professional fleets.

confirthisposmed

I'm probably typing on a Tablet too, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them.
El'ismhur Khunsiu
Les chevaliers de l'ordre
Goonswarm Federation
#204 - 2012-09-13 12:28:50 UTC
Remove one low slot too Exequror and scythe and add one high slot.

Make that will be possible to fit only 3 medium rep or 2 medium rep and 2 small rep.

Now the two versions are too much tanking with 10 slot between low and medium.
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#205 - 2012-09-13 13:08:14 UTC
Yes T2 logistic ships are overpowered because they are difficult to kill when linked up with even 1-2 other T2 logistics.
But they are also overpowered because they can do this 70km away from the action while at least 2-3 of them are very agile and fast.

I know it might be a bigger step than you want to take, but plz give me a few comments of why a rebalanced range of RR modules isn't taken into consideration.

The last nerf to to Falcons because they were sitting at a safe distance jamming people was to reduce their optimal bringing them closer to people... Rebalancing RR module range gives you the oportunity to do the same while still having ranged RR as an option with less hitpoints repaired but will force logistics much closer to the action should they want the maximum available hitpoints repaired.

Pinky
LePaJ
My Little Pony Industries Inc.
RED.OverLord
#206 - 2012-09-13 13:12:25 UTC
Pinky Denmark wrote:
Yes T2 logistic ships are overpowered because they are difficult to kill when linked up with even 1-2 other T2 logistics.
But they are also overpowered because they can do this 70km away from the action while at least 2-3 of them are very agile and fast.
Pinky

AB t2 logi: speed 600-700, lock range -90+ km. 2 dampeners and around 30 km lock. Good luck.
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#207 - 2012-09-13 13:17:00 UTC
Yeah that will absolutely work at every single scenario...
Good luck winning battles by dampening the enemy logistics - Just because they can do it 70km away doesn't mean they wont sit closer?
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan
#208 - 2012-09-13 13:38:09 UTC
Winter's shaping up to be fun Big smile

"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom."
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#209 - 2012-09-13 14:50:17 UTC
Calsys wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

The T1 ships are set up for medium reps not large. If you have decent fitting skills you can fit 1 large rep on them


what?

i can fit TWO large reps at osprey with two LSE meta4, two shield adaptives t2, mwd, dc t2, which is equal T2 logist but MUCH cheaper than t2 logy and repair some more (~1100 (3 reps with 360 each) vs ~1300 (TWO REPS WITH 640 EACH)).

discuss.

Now look at the basilisk with 4 LST II and you will rep considerably more 1536 HP or 384 HP/s vs. 2 LST with +15%/level 1344 HP or 336 HP/s.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#210 - 2012-09-13 14:54:13 UTC
I still think T2 logi and these new T1 logi are simply overbonused with tiny sig radius the other support cruisers/ T2 recons etc wont get anywhere near as good a sig radius or as powerful bonuses.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Heribeck Weathers
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#211 - 2012-09-13 18:52:44 UTC
Love buffing them to be very decent logi and making Med shield transporters usefull, but gosh dang it CCP cant you give them a full rack of guns? as some one said earlyer, they will be unbonused so they arnt going to be a serious threat, but making them no longer able to be trap fit to kill frigs thinkign they are getting an easy logi kill is sad, beyond sad really.
Aaron Greil
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#212 - 2012-09-13 20:15:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron Greil
I'm seeing a running theme, here. "ADD DRONES TO EVERYTHING!"

Ugh, cool, I guess? Feels like homogenization to me. Drones should be gall->amarr->minmnatar->caldari with some exceptions here and there.

I like the full drone bay on the exequror, I don't like the nearly full (and oddly shaped) bay on the scythe. Also, not every ship needs drones. There has been major drone additions across all four races with the new balance. I think its a little much. ease up, especially on the caldari and minmatar.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#213 - 2012-09-14 04:00:26 UTC
When factoring in rigs the t2 variants, logistics ships actually are -1 slot compared to these ships. Roll

Now is the time for consistency ccp, we don't need glaring foolishness like this lasting for 7+ years like many other oversights.
Calsys
Monks of War
#214 - 2012-09-14 05:15:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Calsys
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

And what will youd capacitor useage be like? I know there is no way in hell it will be stable.


how about capatransfer at other osprey?
Calsys
Monks of War
#215 - 2012-09-14 05:16:56 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

Now look at the basilisk with 4 LST II and you will rep considerably more 1536 HP or 384 HP/s vs. 2 LST with +15%/level 1344 HP or 336 HP/s.

where you see basi w\ 4 LST?

f**king eft warriors :facepalm.jpg:
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#216 - 2012-09-14 06:08:15 UTC
Calsys wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

And what will youd capacitor useage be like? I know there is no way in hell it will be stable.


how about capatransfer at other osprey?

[Osprey] Winter

Large Shield Transporter II
Large Shield Transporter II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Damage Control II
Reactor Control Unit II
Co-Processor II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

This is the only way your fit will work. there is no room for an energy transfer and it caps out in 13 seconds.
if you were to use 2 Ospreys why not use medium reps on them both?


If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Calsys
Monks of War
#217 - 2012-09-14 06:17:10 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

[Osprey] Winter

Large Shield Transporter II
Large Shield Transporter II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Damage Control II
Reactor Control Unit II
Co-Processor II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

This is the only way your fit will work. there is no room for an energy transfer and it caps out in 13 seconds.
if you were to use 2 Ospreys why not use medium reps on them both?


LST meta4 x 2
energy transfer meta 4 x 2
plus one empty Hi slot

dont need co-proc because CCP boost osprey's CPU.

anyway - T1 logistics will be more powerfull than T2.... :CCP Style:
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#218 - 2012-09-14 06:33:36 UTC
Calsys wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

[Osprey] Winter

Large Shield Transporter II
Large Shield Transporter II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Damage Control II
Reactor Control Unit II
Co-Processor II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

This is the only way your fit will work. there is no room for an energy transfer and it caps out in 13 seconds.
if you were to use 2 Ospreys why not use medium reps on them both?


LST meta4 x 2
energy transfer meta 4 x 2
plus one empty Hi slot

dont need co-proc because CCP boost osprey's CPU.

anyway - T1 logistics will be more powerfull than T2.... :CCP Style:



[Osprey] Winter II

2x Large Shield Transporter II
2x Medium Murky Energy Transmitter I

2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
2x Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Damage Control II
2x Reactor Control Unit II

3x Medium Ancillary Current Router I

like this it is 18% over CPU capacity, swap a reactor control for a co-procesor and you end up over by 13% power grid
and 4% cpu. it also caps out in merely 13 seconds despite being chained due to the extreme capacior demand from the large transporters. i dont think they are going to give the ship a 20% increase to CPU

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Calsys
Monks of War
#219 - 2012-09-14 06:44:33 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:


like this it is 18% over CPU capacity, swap a reactor control for a co-procesor and you end up over by 13% power grid
and 4% cpu. it also caps out in merely 13 seconds despite being chained due to the extreme capacior demand from the large transporters. i dont think they are going to give the ship a 20% increase to CPU



skills + boost opsrey's CPU ~ 550 cpu
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#220 - 2012-09-14 06:54:19 UTC
Calsys wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:


like this it is 18% over CPU capacity, swap a reactor control for a co-procesor and you end up over by 13% power grid
and 4% cpu. it also caps out in merely 13 seconds despite being chained due to the extreme capacior demand from the large transporters. i dont think they are going to give the ship a 20% increase to CPU



skills + boost opsrey's CPU ~ 550 cpu

Level 5 skills were accounted for during these builds. The second fit needs about 660 CPU, which would be an additional 20% from current with max skills. Even with level 5 capacitor skills and dual energy transfer it will cap out in 13 seconds.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.