Ships & Modules

I was wondering if anyone could help me come up with a fit for the punisher that wont just be kited to death. I really want to like this ship but it just seems too handicapped to do anything with. Don't get me wrong, as a brawler I could see this being a strong contender for solo work, but more often than brawling fits I'm running into rail atrons and rail merlins ect. I understand how to "sling shot" kiters but to do so you need to have at least a little bit of agility.

The main weakness I see in this ship is:
1. It only has two mid slots, so no web or TD.
2. It's slow, and when you armor tank it........ ITS REALLY SLOW!
3. Being a laser boat it makes it almost impossible to active tank it.

Not all of this can be attributed to the ship itself I suppose. Armor tanking and it's associated modules/rigs are as much or more to blame. I'm guessing Gallente suffer from the same problems to a lesser extent?

Anyway, I've only been PvPing for a few months and these all maybe wrong headed preconceived notions. If I am wrong please set me straight.

Yeah scorch takes care of scram range kiters, its the long range kiters such as the atron with a 24km point (which it can run all day long) and simular fits I'm more concerned about. You can't really put beams on a punisher because it cannot dictate range and anthing can get under your guns ability to track it.

I think the problem boils down to shield tanking vs armor tanking and possibly the new T1 interceptors ability to kite at range while running a MWD and Long point and guns while being cap stable at the same time.

Damage projection or speed helps against them. While a Punisher isn't fast, projecting damage is something Amarr can do very well. So you could at least fend off said kiters.

True, if beam fitted (without web) you're dead as soon as a fast brawler gets under your guns.

But with tackle support things look very different suddenly: because of Amarr's superior damage projection with lasers (beam or pulse) a Punisher is able to deal more damage much earlier compared to blaster or projectile guns.

So for solo a Tormentor or Executioner is maybe simply the better option.

I just can't seem to get to the root of the problem I have with the ship. It just seems to me that kiting > brawling and shield tanking > armor tanking. And the punisher as a brawling armor tanker gets the worst of both. Or I guess even more simplified, PvP is all about range dictation which the punisher is the worst of the worst at among frigates.

This problem seems to go away when you get to cruisers because medium pulse lasers can hit out long point range and therefore all ranges are covered. Frigate sized guns only hit out to 10k roughly and then you're forced to fit beams, rails or arty if you want to hit out to 20k which leaves you vulnerable up close.

Well that's the main problem right there. Kiting frigates are WAY popular right now, at least in FW. I still brawl mostly (which is odd because I used to hate it) but I've limited myself to the executioner and tormentor.

Yes I've read that blog. It's what got me started playing this game. As far as shield tanking being superior to armor tanking I mean in regards to the penalties associated with each. Armor tanking takes huge hits to speed and agility from armor plates and armor rigs while shield tanking only has to deal with a minor increase to sig radius.

Concerning manual piloting, what is the advantage in that? Can you elaborate a little more? I've heard it mentioned many times but never seen it explained in detail.

There are a few you tubes out there on it, and the occasional thread on it, but I will describe it the best I can (keep in mind I know the premise but am still practicing it myself).

When you use the menus to 'stay at 15k' or to 'orbit at 15k' for example, the computer AI is what tries to keep your ship in that location or orbit. However, the enemy ship is moving also. So your 15k orbit may actually be oval instead of circular, at some areas if they are changing speed you may close to 12k while your autopilot tries to adjust.

When you free pilot, you can try to trick their autopilot (or the player themselves if they are manually clicking), by changing speeds up / down, double clicking behind you while at lower speed then maxing out your AB, trying to get closer to them for a lock (this one ive heard called 'yo-yo' for the back and forth the two ships do while jockeying for position.

Another one is if you are trying to get away or break out of their point range. You again try to fool them, then go either directly at them, overheating your AB / MWD, or in some cases, I have managed to run them into an asteroid or other ship, bouncing them away 'sling shotting' them out of range so you can get away.

With a brawler, as weird as it may sound, you actually have to do more finesse than a lot of snipers, because you need to try and force a closer range for a lock vs a ship that is faster than you. (you will hear me give exception to the ASB a lot, so I will shut up about that for now. Just keep in mind it currently makes things much harder for armor ships).

Now the advantage you do have, is MOST of the sniping ships are paper mache bb guns. By dictating range, they can plink at you all day long, eventually wearing you down. If you manage to screw them up, and get in scram range (most of the time they use MWD's), in a punisher, you can seriously rock their world in just a couple of volleys. If you have MWD or AB going, and theirs is shut down, that little brick of yours suddenly can stay right in their face. ;)


Short Version of my rambling... Manual or 'free' piloting, is using your camera facing & mouse clicks for direction change, and adjusting your speeds manually (and overheating when needed) to try and screw up the autopilots range and trick their ships close enough to grab them (or push them far enough to get away yourself).



Edit: something else ive tried lately that has surprised me btw. I have started keeping some IR crystals as a 3rd set in my cargo. They don't hit nearly as hard, but they do reach 90% of the snipers I encounter, and even with the lesser damage, it wears them down (most of them don't have active tank. They are ASB or passive + speed). If i cant manage to close, that at least chases them away.

Ah so let me get this straight, the assault ships out do the frigate. Odd concept that. o.0

In particular the Retribution, AKA Punisher 2.0, which is essentially the same ship, with, a few hundred more base hps, 50% more range, and 25% more tracking with the same weapons, along with reduced MWD bloom. (in this case, tieracide or not, its simply more ship).

The slicer takes for ever to kill me, and I have gotten much better at shaking up ranges a bit to get a scram on them (not saying they can't. Just saying its not a 30 sec fight and loot the wreck). The wolf is similar for me, and when I am able to get close enough I hurt it fast (although when they close and neut with closer range weapons, it tears me up, breaking my active tank down fast as hell). I never said I stand still while using the upper range crystal and try to have a tanking war from long range. I am doing every thing I can to try and get closer to them the entire time, so that I can change over to a crystal that does more damage. ;P

I point you sir, back to the upper post, where I said there is a ship and / or build that is a good counter for just about any ship out there. Congrats on naming a couple. ;)