Ships & Modules

First of all, Force recons are the ones which cloak. The Lachesis is the Gallente COMBAT recon.

The thing with Combat Recons is that they sort of trade their ability to fit Covert Ops cloaks with a second DPS bonus. This makes them more effective in combat, but nothing to write home about.

I find that the ability to cloak and the potential surprise "oh, damn" effect dramatically outweights the advantage of another weapon bonus.

Let's say you engage a hostile group after weighting your chances, and everything seems to be going alright...and then a ****ing Falcon uncloaks at near max ECM'ing range and screws your plans. Or maybe a bonused Arazu pointing you at 100Km when you thought you were free to warp away, or a Rapier pinning your frigate down from God knows what distance.

In those theorical situations, a Rook or a Lachesis wouldn't have had the same effect: your scouts would have reported them. Come the fight, they would be primaried quite early on, while a Falcon or Arazu thay uncloak after people have started to tear each other apart contribute greatly to chaos and have more time to screw the opposition.

So, if you consider Arazu/Lachesis, I'd say Cloak > missile bonus (LOL).

Thanks for reply, topic was changed appriopriately.

From what i understand about Falcons is that they are very thin-paper and could be killed easily. And that's bad :P and that Combat Recon can stand a fight while jamming/distrupting.

Does Combat Ships are used often in small/big/huge fleet fights or ..they are discarded ships\?
Also i'm trying to prevoided best use in gang-fleet(beside being tank/DPS). I know that there is different ships and different rules in gangs and fleets and i'm currently trying to learn about recons for that matter.

Combat recons don't really stand a chance. They get primaried and vaporized, and in all practical (real) situations their survivability and the effect they bring into an engagement is far worse than the matching Force recon.

All because the Cloaks, which are incredibly powerful tools.

A cloaked Force recon appears when primaries have been called, and its effects can be applied AFTER the situation has been assessed. You can uncloak a Falcon to save the ship from your team that is being primaried, or you can drop an Arazu to damp the hell of that Battleship that is doing to most damage.

Combat recons cannot be used like this, because as soon as they are seen, they are obliterated.

This does not mean that they are not used. However, I consider that most FCs would appreciate an Arazu or Falcon over a Lachesis or Rook. And as you will be able to pilot both...well.

And yes, Falcons and paper thin. But Rooks are THE SAME: The only difference in raw survivability is a slight boost to shield and armor Kinetic & Therman resists. Which mean absolutely ZERO when the enemy fleet gets a glimpse of your Rook in the overview and orders all ships to erase it NAO. A Falcon would have joined the party a few seconds later, and run amok.

So, in my experience and opinion: Recons are godly. Combat recons are OK, Force recons are better in most realistic scenarios.

I love surprising a lone frig with a Rapier that utterly demolishes it.
I also held my own going solo against a Harb for a few minutes until my friends arrived to pop it.
Love my R@pe-Ear

Combat Recon (CR) Force Recon (FR)

Amar:

CR - Curse - 100% bonus to Neut and Nos Xfer amount. 200% Range on them. 25% Tracking Disruptor Str. 50% drone str.
FR - Pilgrim - Same on all bonuses, except for Neut range, bit less tank.

GREAT against Logi, active tanks, heavy cap users, all turrets. Decent tank for its class. Weak against missiles, passive (no cap) tanks, ASB's.

CR - Rook - 150% ECM strength (gods i hate these but love em on my team), 50% missile speed, 25% missile damage.
FR - Falcon - 150% ECM strength, 25% hybrid damage.

GREAT against anything that needs to target to operate. One of the easier ships to escape with if you are still alive after the first minute. Weakness, almost always primaried (EVERYONE hates ECM) (I do not know much about their tank so wont comment on it here)

CR - Lachesis - 25% missile ROF, 25% hybrid damage, 100% warp disruptor range, 25% sensor damper str.
FR - Arazu - same except for missile bonus.

GREAT in most long range & sniping engagements, one of the best point ships out there. (not sure about their tank, so wont comment on it)

CR - Huginn - 300% web range (!!!!!), 25% missile ROF, 25% turret ROF, 37.5% target painter str.
FR - Rapier - Same except for missile bonus.

GREAT vs snipers, speed tanks, and being in missile groups. Easier than most to escape with due to webs,(again, not sure on tank so wont comment here)


Force recons usually give up some DPS (Pilgrim is notable in that it only gives up range, not dps), but gain the SURPRISE ability. Combat recons tend to have another damage system added in place of the cloak, and in some cases a bit more tank.


Are they fun? Some of the most fun ships I have flown in pvp so far.
Are they effective? Heh, listen in on some pvp conversations one of these days. You will hear fun comments like 'oh @%^! a damned Pilgrim just popped!, or 'FOR THE LOVE OF GOD will someone kill that Huginn!'.
Are they for everyone? Honestly, probably not. I do well in the Curse and Pilgrim, and (so far, very new to it) have done decently with the Lachesis, but I am terrible in the Rook, for example.

They are worth training for, regardless. I would pick a couple that fit your play style and that compliment the group you roam with. Ask some of them to carry armor / shield rep drones, and to keep the drones on you during the combats. Just 1 recon ship can turn a 5v5 battle very quickly. They are that useful. ;)

I have another tip. Don't train Recons IV.

Go all the way to V.

Not because of the bonus (which are undoubtedly nice). It's mainly because fitting Force recons without Recons V (which reduces the fitting needs of the cloak) is frustrating and stupid.

Recons are one of the ship classes that benefit the most from training the related skill to V.

Faction disruptor on my Arazu + Recons V + friend with Loki = point at 107 bloody kilometres. Talk about amazing.

This is for small gang, so don't need a Cyno, I once lost a Rapier because an Inty landed on me at 0 and scrammed me, every since then, I have fitted ACs on my Huginn/Lachesis etc.

To understand this you need to understand the state and role of Recons.

The Lach and the Curse have something particular that stand out about them: they have additional midslots compared to their Cloaky Recon brethren, which can make them appealing as off-tank options. That's the background to any comments regarding "useful Combat Recons" and which those are. At the same time, the advantages are not as pronounced as they'd need to be to set them apart enough to warrant their tank over just the cloak.

In the past it was more of a combination between tank, resist-profile and damage. That combination weighed up the general better armor-performance and cloaking of the respective racial Cloaky.

As the game streamline more and more focus is put on Recons to carry out solely it's primary support role (ie., point, web etc)., which in general premiers the cloaky ships. They get the cloak and once you start to devote every other slot on the ship to survival that extra midslot or damage bonus begin to matter much less. In order to utilize the peripheral bonuses (or secondary support-bonuses; such as damps in relation to the Lach) you have to give up survivability. Considering current cost-risk ratios hardly anyone do that, for good reason, but sadly with poor result.

The demise of Combat Recons has been one of my main arguments against the introduction of Tier 3 BC. They are the perfect example of what you punish when you introduce focused, cost-affordable and onedimensional ships like that. No one want to field an undertanked, expensive and specialist ship (that just scream primary target) in such an environment. The primary role may still be coveted, but as the game stand now, that is best complemented by as much defensive layering as possible: since you can not rely on piloting action as much anymore.

When it comes to scaling overall the Combat recons have a very odd position in my experience. They generally appeal where your gang need the offensive addition yet have the back-end to support you. Those situations are rare, since the cloak will appeal in both many smaller- and larger settings. The Combat version, in my eyes - i should add, only really have appeal in a small setting where your gang want/need you as a apart of the target pool on grid (ie., they can't spare you entering the fight later from a more advantageous position) and in certain specialist gangs in the small-medium overlap around 15-20 (eg., where you'd find the smallest sniper-esque gangs, that usually profile a bit later as they need specialist support and have a lower damage output). You could say that they appeal when your gang rely on "snap".

In any other situation i can think of now, the ability of the Cloaky recon to maintain itself, maintain it's primary role better and fit for the primary role at least equally good - will make that ship the preferred one. In your more typical gang the gang doesn't need your damage addition as much as they need staying power in your effect, and even if your gang have other support (Logi etc.) they may not have enough of them to guarantee your tank or control. In advanced theory the Cloakies have alot of appeal in helping their friends by helping themselves. A bit backwards, but true .

I thought i'd weigh in with my point of view...

While not being a force recon, the pilgrim is my preferred ship of choice (for where i live in WH space)

The ability to stalk your target and not have to engage until you're confident of taking it down is priceless. A pilgrim has the ability to take on majority of turret based ships and come out on top (with the exception of minmatar which you need to be on top of your game)

Oh, and the train to recon V is definately worth it if you're planning on being in this class of ship alot.

Cheers,

Sith

That really depends, the problem is the cruiser class recon ship is just too paper thin for most PvE in WH above class 2. I've found more success with the SB (manticore) with a bomb launcher and torps - you can get into position for a spot-on bombing run, warp out (avoid your own bomb), warp in, make a couple torp volleys and GTFO before getting pinned. Not exactly great success but remember FR and CR are designed for fleet support, NOT solo-PvE. Also for pure exploration I use the Heron.