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[Winter] Support Cruisers

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Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#121 - 2012-09-12 00:12:40 UTC
Homogenization

I’m not surprised, but this does make the game less interesting. I think there needs to be a wild card ship class. Too much structure. I cannot tell you how many different ways I used an Exequror (salvager, miner, hauler with teeth). Sadly, this is typical and has happened in the past.

Off beat, valuable bonuses let players decide what to do with them.

All in all, good show, though.
T1 logistic ships are needed.
Mining cruisers are a relic.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#122 - 2012-09-12 00:17:47 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
4 rep AB Onieros are not as uncommon as above poster would lead you to believe. Still cap stable ;)


I do 4 with mwd and be cap stable with it all on. Runs on a cap booster and 2 rep rigs.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#123 - 2012-09-12 00:36:22 UTC
I'm Down wrote:

I'm going to chalk this comment up to inexperience. There are 3 standard fits for an oneiros:

3 rep MWD
3 rep AB
4 rep empire gank

The only time a 4 rep setup is ever used is for empire short duration small fights because it's super hard to make it cap stable and fit for tank.

You are wrong.

My last alliance used a 4 rep oneiros fit, but anyway guardian were prefered, as often for 0.0 fleet duty.

The point is, you are wrong, and that's not even considering all the others advantages of the oneiros over this exequror like sensor strength, T2 resists, raw hp, targeting range, sig radius ; that is some kind of list I think... If you cannot find some use for all these things, well, just fly a T1 logi until you learn that...
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#124 - 2012-09-12 00:40:11 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Rayner Vanguard wrote:

I'm not sure if relying on drones to repair is a nice idea
While, they may have their use in pve, it might be not efficient for pvp

Logi will usually be primary target, which is why they have to bounce a lot to a nearby planets to avoid targeting

The other can simply bounce and back, lock the fleetmates and start repairing again

But, the drone logi? They have to get all the drones first, bounce and back, get all of your drones, targeting, wait for the drones to arrive at their target, start repairing

The logi will have the risk of being destroyed while taking the drones

What if they just bounce off and leave the drones? The enemies can simply destroy the drones and they will do that many times until the logi doesn't have anything beside the 3 remote repair in the high slot


Do not worry, these ship don't rely on drones to repair any more than current Scimitars and Oneiros' do.


Here's an idea. Fix warp times and then give tech 1 cruiser logitisics a 50% increase to warp speed instead of drone repair amount. Giving them a role to fill. Can't heal for as much, but are able to get back into the fight faster than their bulky older sisters.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
I'm Down
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#125 - 2012-09-12 00:54:44 UTC  |  Edited by: I'm Down
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
4 rep AB Onieros are not as uncommon as above poster would lead you to believe. Still cap stable ;)


They are highly rare when you consider the lack of lvl 5 logistic and repair pilots out there compared to the rest of the game. And when you consider the relative ease of getting many more logistics into a fight b/c of the skill diminishment, who the **** cares anyways.

The moment you start to go 4 repairer route, you diminish everything else the ship has to offer in combat including the EHP and resistance edges. So yeah, you can do it, but don't bullshit the thread by saying it's an advantage when you aren't conceding the tradeoffs of doing it.


This is how power creeps happen. The Exeq. caters heavily to power by numbers and replenishment by ease while being way too powerful.
Oraac Ensor
#126 - 2012-09-12 01:01:24 UTC
If the Exequror is to lose its cargo bonus what alternative will trial accounts have for hauling?
I'm Down
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#127 - 2012-09-12 01:06:01 UTC  |  Edited by: I'm Down
Oraac Ensor wrote:
If the Exequror is to lose its cargo bonus what alternative will trial accounts have for hauling?


you do see it got 3 additional low slots right? At cruiser lvl 1 post change, it's got he potential for 3232 cargo space with 6 local expanders and 3 t1 rigs.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2012-09-12 01:44:53 UTC
While I cannot provide an exact number I do know there are a lot of triage carrier pilots out there.
And again could you show this 3 rep oneiros fit?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#129 - 2012-09-12 03:02:43 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
While I cannot provide an exact number I do know there are a lot of triage carrier pilots out there.
And again could you show this 3 rep oneiros fit?


this is the one i use


[Oneiros, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

10MN Afterburner II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
Medium Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800

Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Drone Link Augmentor I

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Medium Armor Maintenance Bot II x5

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2012-09-12 03:17:12 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
While I cannot provide an exact number I do know there are a lot of triage carrier pilots out there.
And again could you show this 3 rep oneiros fit?


this is the one i use


[Oneiros, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

10MN Afterburner II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
Medium Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800

Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Drone Link Augmentor I

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Medium Armor Maintenance Bot II x5

Then you must be having capacitor issues because you have plenty of power grid for a 4th meta RR, but with the cap booster on there that should be OK too. And there is no shortage of CPU either, so I don't understand why only 3 RR

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2012-09-12 03:34:26 UTC
Exequror:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
5% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
100% bonus to Logistic Drone (both armor and shield) rep amount
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 4 M, 6 L (+3), 3 turrets (-1)
Fittings: 610 PWG (+110), 275 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1000(+101) / 1400(+227) / 1600(+506)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+375) / 264s(-92.25s) / 5.2 (+2.4)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+81) / 0.61 / 11020000 / 6.3s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10) / 50(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km(+7.5) / 365(+43) / 8(+3)
Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric (+2)
Signature radius: 80 (-40)

With the extra low slots I am looking forward to putting a t2 DDA on it and 2 sentry drones in the hold and applying some long range damage with this:-)

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#132 - 2012-09-12 05:45:38 UTC
Kind of off-topic, but since there are so many 'meh' exclamations regarding secondary bonuses on Scythe/Exequror perhaps cooking up a new eWar system is the way to go (recycle of 5-6 year old idea):

Mass Packet Ejector:
By chipping off shards from a contained singularity and ejecting them through a gauss array, the relative mass of a hostile ship can be increased. Effect is temporary as the ejected mini-singularities evaporate over time.
- Increases mass of target ship by XX%, that and range, fitting, etc. can be assigned as necessary.
- Can be set to use cap charges as ammo (compress it to feed singularity, duh!), similar to the much loved ASB.
NB: Figure that a double hit should be approx. equivalent to a 1600 plate or so.

If Scythe/Exequror are to be the faster options designed for small gang action, then the ability to slow an enemy down from afar ... all is of course moot if CCP already has a plan being worked on to re-do the eWar in Eve in which case an "old" bonus would suffice Smile
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#133 - 2012-09-12 06:50:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Iam Widdershins
Seems a bit strong to me, I would probably knock down the Augoror and Osprey by 1 high slot; as you have them here they can rep about eighty percent as far and eighty percent as hard as a T2 logistic, but they're still able to do it from outside midrange.

Maybe I'm exaggerating slightly, but I feel like the range bonus could be dialed back to 850 or 900 percent and the rep amount to 12.5 percent without anyone getting too mad about it.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature
Calsys
Monks of War
#134 - 2012-09-12 07:09:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Calsys
meh

CCP what are you doing?
kills logy pilots and boost noobs
are you really think thats a good idea?

Today's Basilisk
Large ST T2 - 384 - 71,4 km
Medium ST T2 - 192 - 51km

Future's Osprey
Large ST T2 - 672 - 92,4 km
Medium ST T2 - 336 - 66 km

oO
wtf
ShockedShockedShocked
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2012-09-12 07:44:34 UTC
Calsys wrote:
meh

CCP what are you doing?
kills logy pilots and boost noobs
are you really think thats a good idea?

Today's Basilisk
Large ST T2 - 384 - 71,4 km
Medium ST T2 - 192 - 51km

Future's Osprey
Large ST T2 - 672 - 92,4 km
Medium ST T2 - 336 - 66 km

oO
wtf
ShockedShockedShocked


Thats not how you compare numbers

Basi: 3 large, 1152hp/s
Future Osprey: 3 medium, 1008hp/s

You made it look like the osprey will rep more which it wont but its a bit too close..
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#136 - 2012-09-12 07:48:28 UTC
Cool stuff, but it's still better to bring one more dps ship instead of T1 logi and put ASBs on everything.

First things first!

.
Calsys
Monks of War
#137 - 2012-09-12 07:55:37 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:


Thats not how you compare numbers

Basi: 3 large, 1152hp/s
Future Osprey: 3 medium, 1008hp/s

You made it look like the osprey will rep more which it wont but its a bit too close..



what your problem to fit TWO LST meta4 ?
and you got about 1300 per cycle....

ahahahaa
Juniorama
State War Academy
Caldari State
#138 - 2012-09-12 08:53:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Juniorama
Lili Lu wrote:
Therefore, I think the rep drone bonus is actually about the best that can be done. Of course rep drones could use a buff to speed and durability. That might give the bonus some meaningful use. And the general drone interface needs to be simplified. Right clicking and scrolling to engage target is slower than a sinlgle click or f button for the remote reppers. The delay from the interface and the travel time is why rep drones lack favor. But if these issues can be addressed the rep drone bonus is a good secondary bonus for these 2 ships.



There already is a shortcut for drone engagement, the regular ol' "F" key; as in the one in between "D" and "G".
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#139 - 2012-09-12 09:35:18 UTC
Another alternative to scoffed at secondary bonuses on Scythe/Exequror:

Bonuses to remote hull repairers.

Again, ties into the concept of the Gallente/Minmatar logistics designed to support roams and/or smaller gangs.
I'm Down
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#140 - 2012-09-12 10:27:12 UTC
Point of the whole arguement is this:

They come out and say, oh, the ships have lower resistances.... not true on the Exeq that has an extra low and an extra rig slot.

They say it has lower sig... after bonus/pil, the Exeq is only 6 more sig.

They say it will have lower repair abilities.... but it goes to show the developers lack of knowledge of use.

And not once do they even consider the massive skill and cost withdrawl that will impact choice when considering the very diminished tradeoff.

Just move a low slot to a high slot please for the love of god on the Exeq. it's going to force it to chose between capstability and tank or power repairing and not allow it nearly as much freedom. Stop with the cookie cutter bullshit where Scythe has 3 highs, so Exeq must also.