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There's something that's always bothered me about Eve...

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Idris Helion
Doomheim
#41 - 2012-09-11 19:08:44 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Depleted? No. Scannable? Absogoddamnlutely.

Keep the current static asteroid fields but starve them out to the point that it's just scraps of ore here and there. There's no need to remove said asteroid fields entirely cause you can do so many other things with them later on anyway.

The real goodies should be scanned down as anomalies. It's not like it's impossible or that there is a lack of space in any given star system Roll


Just watch the cost of minerals skyrocket, and the manufacturing sector collapse.

You don't want to price manufacturers out of the game when nearly everything in the game is manufactured by other players. It's a bad idea, mmm-kay? Minerals need to be relatively easy to harvest. New Eden needs a lot of trit to function -- the last thing you want to do is make Trit harder to get. The limit is not on the availability of minerals, but on the willingness of miners to harvest them. Even in a universe where a resource is essentially limitless like Trit is, there's always going to be a constant and heavy demand because a) it's the backbone of the entire economy, and b) there is a limited pool of miners willing to harvest that resource in the amount demanded by the marketplace.

In RL, think of a resource like iron or salt: the resources occur naturally in high abundance, but the effort lies in collecting and refining them. That's where the value-add is.

If you limit the raw materials that form the foundation of New Eden, you'll crash the economy.
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-09-11 19:09:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Gillia Winddancer
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Wasn't the suggestion to remove regular belts? and if not, wouldn't they be mined out by other players like myself far far faster in hulks and such, leaving new players nothing to mine?

As for the logistics, have you flown ships that warp at .8 au across a large system? Or 2.7 au for an orca? Again, why do you want to add extra carebear time to the game? Seems like unnecessary complications just to satisfy the desire to make the game realistic in one minor manner.


My own reasons is partially because of said realism and partially because it would fit in with my other suggestions/wishes which involve no concord, more dynamic piracy and evil-doing, the usual submarine idea amongst other things. My jigsaw pieces which are based around as many dynamic mechanics as possible don't fit in too well with the current puzzle which have too many static pieces.

Quote:

Just watch the cost of minerals skyrocket, and the manufacturing sector collapse.

You don't want to price manufacturers out of the game when nearly everything in the game is manufactured by other players. It's a bad idea, mmm-kay? Minerals need to be relatively easy to harvest. New Eden needs a lot of trit to function -- the last thing you want to do is make Trit harder to get. The limit is not on the availability of minerals, but on the willingness of miners to harvest them. Even in a universe where a resource is essentially limitless like Trit is, there's always going to be a constant and heavy demand because a) it's the backbone of the entire economy, and b) there is a limited pool of miners willing to harvest that resource in the amount demanded by the marketplace.

In RL, think of a resource like iron or salt: the resources occur naturally in high abundance, but the effort lies in collecting and refining them. That's where the value-add is.

If you limit the raw materials that form the foundation of New Eden, you'll crash the economy.


My suggestion would not cause the economy to crash simply because a couple of extra steps are added. Overall, the amount of minerals found in each system would remain more or less unchanged, and I call bull that it would take so much more effort that the market would effectively collapse. Highsec would still have lots of trit (but be more flexible at the same time) - and in fact there is no reason to not think that systems could even end up with more minerals at times.

In fact, you could even add that there is the possibility of saving time when mining, cause anomalies does not have to look like regular belts, should one anomaly happen to be the spawn of a Veldspar king or some such. No need to travel as rocks are depleted, just stay in one spot and mine, mine, mine.

Dynamic factors - gotta love them.
Medarr
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2012-09-11 19:12:09 UTC
To all you guys saying Istvaan doesnt understand eve...

I sugest you google him and GHSC before making a utter fool of yourself...

Also.. Nice one Istvaan ;-)
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#44 - 2012-09-11 19:16:12 UTC
Belts (or gravs) need to respawn like now, but every day a tiny bit smaller if mined out. Over a period of say, some months, miners would need to migrate to other areas as the sites/belts would have trickled to nearly nothing.

Meanwhile the once outmined systems would slowly heal back to normal, twice as slow as they deplete in null, and at slower rates the higher you go up in sec status. In 1.0 there would be just enough rocks for newbies to try out some mining, but not enough for industrial mining.



.
Myxx
The Scope
#45 - 2012-09-11 19:28:19 UTC
Dennis Gregs wrote:
You didn't think this through, OP.


He probably thought it through so much, that his eyes popped out of their sockets from thinking about it too much.

Denidil wrote:
posting in a stealth "i hate miners, i don't understand the first ******* thing about eve's economy" thread.

Ryhss wrote:
OP doesn't understand MMO's....

You dont know Istvaan very well, do you? You should google him and his corporation. He knows EVE better than most.
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#46 - 2012-09-11 19:38:05 UTC
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
There are enough asteroids for everyone.

There shouldn't be. Why do they respawn? They've been harvested by four giant industrial empires for years.

There shouldn't be asteroids in high-sec space anymore due to simple depletion. Folks should have to start fighting over asteroids in lowsec. imho.



I agree. Roids should be finite but initially plentiful.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-09-11 19:40:59 UTC
I'd be curious to see how that ended up. I wonder if people would actually consider moving. Many miners in highsec do so AFK and as such wouldn't be able to continue in other security bands. Lots of other ramifications to consider too.
Agent Akari
Absolute Order XVIII
Absolute Will
#48 - 2012-09-11 19:50:14 UTC
IF there aren't enough asteroids, we'll just start blowing up planets to create more asteroids then.
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2012-09-11 20:49:10 UTC
this would only work if 100% of a destroyed ships value was reprocess able into minerals at 100% rate as well as wrecks never disappearing.
stoicfaux
#50 - 2012-09-11 21:28:54 UTC
The solution to permanently depleting asteroids is Sun mining. Park your manufacturing station near/on/in a star and convert the energy into mass (i.e. create the atoms you need.) E=mc^2 isn't a one way street.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Whisperen
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#51 - 2012-09-11 23:37:52 UTC
Sounds like a good idea leave the belts but remove all the 5% and 10% ores hisec ores and put them in hisec grav sites. We now have a selection of upgraded barges that can fit enough buffer to keep them up before reps land and they have the fittings to fit Warp stabs and still hold lots of ore.

Also soon we will have a mining frigate that will no doubt have the slot and cpu required to fit a core probe launcher in addition to its mining lasers. With the new t1 logi frigates and tiercide working out the kinks in the T1 logi cruisers there is no longer any reason that a organized group or awake solo miner couldn't make serious isk in lowsec.

Lots and lots of Grav sites and some Ice/Moongoo Grav sites along with making hisec ice deplete and everybody wins. Well except the botters.
unloadedx16
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-09-12 04:19:30 UTC
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
That would destroy the economy. At some point no more trit ever? How would be build ships? Many people would just stop mining because the risk would be too high. The market for everything or close to it would start to go up in a crazy way untill a new supply of trit could be provided.


Nah, not ever. I'm just talking about a major depletion in high sec. Imagine if asteroids weren't in fixed belts, but were something you had to scan down. Small bunches of rocks in high-sec at most, easily depleted by a single miner in one hour perhaps, and not respawning for another hour. Sure, there's a bit, but with high-sec's population concentration, these would be pretty much instantly wiped out, and not just a source of infinitely grindable ore. Bigger bunches of rocks in low-sec, and up to unspoiled drifting masses that look like planetoids loaded with precious goodness in 0.0


+1000
unloadedx16
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-09-12 04:30:16 UTC
Herping yourDerp wrote:
this would only work if 100% of a destroyed ships value was reprocess able into minerals at 100% rate as well as wrecks never disappearing.


this +1000 x 2

Even though this idea will probably never happen it would definitely add to the sandbox feel if resources are harder to acquire and more resources preserved.

Maybe not EVERYTHING 100% reclaimable but very close (or substantially more than it is now) and raw materials much much much more scarce and harder to find.

Eve would feel like a whole new game and be more sandboxish.

Malak Synn
#54 - 2012-09-12 05:57:17 UTC
unloadedx16 wrote:


Maybe not EVERYTHING 100% reclaimable but very close (or substantially more than it is now) and raw materials much much much more scarce and harder to find.

Eve would feel like a whole new game and be more sandboxish.



Not too sure about "sandboxish".
But most definitely "Interesting Times".
... I pick The Worst Times to Come Back In-Game...  ::shakes head::
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#55 - 2012-09-12 06:26:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
There are enough asteroids for everyone.

There shouldn't be. Why do they respawn? They've been harvested by four giant industrial empires for years.

There shouldn't be asteroids in high-sec space anymore due to simple depletion. Folks should have to start fighting over asteroids in lowsec. imho.




Make real scarcity and there will be real PVP.

The game becomes everything everybody says it should be.


Even the salvagers will be killing each other.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#56 - 2012-09-12 06:27:39 UTC
unloadedx16 wrote:
Herping yourDerp wrote:
this would only work if 100% of a destroyed ships value was reprocess able into minerals at 100% rate as well as wrecks never disappearing.


this +1000 x 2

Even though this idea will probably never happen it would definitely add to the sandbox feel if resources are harder to acquire and more resources preserved.

Maybe not EVERYTHING 100% reclaimable but very close (or substantially more than it is now) and raw materials much much much more scarce and harder to find.

Eve would feel like a whole new game and be more sandboxish.





Thus clone vats should require the same amount of biomass going in as coming out. Imagine what happens to disco camps?

Imagine what happens when an alliance is cut off from biomass.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-09-12 06:33:20 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Many people would just stop mining because the risk would be too high.


EVE as a whole would be better off with out these people.

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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#58 - 2012-09-12 06:51:16 UTC
I 100% support Istvaan's suggestion.

Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Seriously, do the people who make such outlandish suggestions ever think about how such changes would impact a new player? How does this sound, "welcome to eve, we know you may want to sit in our sandbox and work towards building castles, but instead of hitting the ground running, spend a month learning how to probe and other skills before you can mine"?


New players are given training in Astrometrics, a core probe launcher and a bunch or core probes as part of their training: then they never use that equipment again. Requiring miners to work a little in order to find that Massive Scordite lode instead of rolling in the belts full of flawed gneiss seems to me to be a sensible thing to do.

I deplore the mechanical nature of simply warping to a belt to reharvest the same rocks we harvested yesterday. The easiest rocks to get to should be the least valuable.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Lilianna Star
Vagrant Empress
#59 - 2012-09-12 07:11:20 UTC
Asteroid belts are also typically a lot larger and would take probably hundreds of years to harvest.
Sabrina Solette
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2012-09-12 07:53:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabrina Solette
So you think if it was real you would be able to harvest an asteroid within 10 minutes?

If it was real then a person that started years ago would be still harvesting their first asteroid belt.





I think the reason it's done as it is, is to limit the amount of minerals that can be mined in an area in a day. I don't think it's about lag as you could just increase the amount of ore per asteroid. But if asteroids did hold many times more the amount of ore than they do now then you would not feel you're actually making much impression on the asteroid. Would you want to be mining the same asteroid for weeks or months even?
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