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How does ships turn in space?

First post
Author
Mr Steinberg
Destruction Creation
#21 - 2012-09-11 17:47:22 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
"Don't worry about it, its a game" would have likely been better than filling your kids head with BS.


lol
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-09-11 17:51:33 UTC
As was pointed out elsewhere on the forums, the physics in EVE are based on a super-fluid, rather than a vacuum.

Super-fluids can be affected by electromagnetic forces in a manner that causes it to become resistive. Our ships drives systems would be constantly emitting such electromagnetic waves, and by tuning those waves, or emitting them in specific directions, we would gain "traction" on the surrounding space thus allowing the ships to turn.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#23 - 2012-09-11 17:59:50 UTC
Mr Steinberg wrote:
My kid came over and asked me what makes eve space ships turn, and i had to make up some random stuff about stuff he cant see on the screen. Anyone have a good answer to this? Big smile

Change the direction of the thrust vector.

Easiest to do on Caldari ships. Blink
Nicholas Barker
Sneaky Magic Inc.
#24 - 2012-09-11 18:03:00 UTC
Mr Steinberg wrote:
Doctor ForumAlt wrote:
The ship never turns.

The warp drive rotates space around your ship.


Interesting thougth, although this means that your warpdrive is actually constantly active.


Well a popular excuse for why we have under water physics is because the warpcore is always on and is attached to some sub space whatever and causes you to have a kind of friction, which is why we don't casually fly around at 35kms and need to keep our engines going all the time to go a constant speed.
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-09-11 18:05:16 UTC
Nicholas Barker wrote:
Mr Steinberg wrote:
Doctor ForumAlt wrote:
The ship never turns.

The warp drive rotates space around your ship.


Interesting thougth, although this means that your warpdrive is actually constantly active.


Well a popular excuse for why we have under water physics is because the warpcore is always on and is attached to some sub space whatever and causes you to have a kind of friction, which is why we don't casually fly around at 35kms and need to keep our engines going all the time to go a constant speed.



As per my previous post, see this wiki page for more details. Note the reference to fluid dynamics.

EVElopedia entry on Acceleration.

Lovingly maintained by my brothers and sisters in YARR.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

Tycho Antus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-09-11 18:10:30 UTC
The same type of question could be raised for engines: in space, a ship need to turn on its engines to reach the good speed. Then, without any gravity the ship's speed is constant. Except for some corrections, the ship don't need to use its engine all the time. See the movie Apollo XIII, they used the engines only to give an impulsion between the Moon and the Earth. All the time the engine is off.

So logically, in Eve, our ship's engine must be turn on/off a lot. It is always the same problem is all sci/fi movies/video games.
I think the Battlestar Galactica is near to the real space physics.

Tycho Antus

Former Captain in the Federation Navy

Chief Executive Officer of Reclamation Technologies

Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#27 - 2012-09-11 18:11:25 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD TYPE40
EDIT: Hmmm, really? Post responsibly please Virgil - ISD Type40.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.

derivativo
Zugleich Techniken
#28 - 2012-09-11 18:12:12 UTC
Real spaceships use gas ejectors at their fuselage to be propelled in the opposing direction: if they want to go left, they use the gas ejector at its right side. This happens because of the linear momentum conservation principle, but I guess the differential equatios are harder to explain than just saying the ship blows some air to move around.

Mr Steinberg wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Gyroscopes. Big gyroscopes.


How does gyroscopes work in a vaccum?


They don't need an atmosphere to work.
ctx2007
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-09-11 18:35:39 UTC
derivativo wrote:
Real spaceships use gas ejectors at their fuselage to be propelled in the opposing direction: if they want to go left, they use the gas ejector at its right side. This happens because of the linear momentum conservation principle, but I guess the differential equatios are harder to explain than just saying the ship blows some air to move around.

Mr Steinberg wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Gyroscopes. Big gyroscopes.


How does gyroscopes work in a vaccum?


They don't need an atmosphere to work.


Yes like i said earlier....... Gas ejectors (same as farting out of a port hole)

You only realise you life has been a waste of time, when you wake up dead.

MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#30 - 2012-09-11 18:39:04 UTC
Mr Steinberg wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Gyroscopes. Big gyroscopes.


How does gyroscopes work in a vaccum?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_moment_gyroscope

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet

Doctor ForumAlt
#31 - 2012-09-11 18:47:16 UTC
ctx2007 wrote:
Space is a vacumn, so you have to stick your arse out of a porthole and fart (break wind, let rip etc)causing a jet of hot gas to slowly turning the the ship. The larger the ship the bigger the fart needed ( don't try to hard you might poop yourself) Ugh


Is there a Taco Bell I can dock at? I want to turn faster.

I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young." "Why, what did she tell you?" "I don't know, I didn't listen."

Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#32 - 2012-09-11 20:00:09 UTC
Mr Steinberg wrote:

My kid came over and asked me what makes eve space ships turn, and i had to make up some random stuff about stuff he cant see on the screen. Anyone have a good answer to this? Big smile



You set a new heading and the game engine proceeds to rotate your ship model according to a predefined rotation based ob where you were pointed and where you want to point.

Seriously, CCP ****** their physics hard in the beginning because they lacked the budget to do it properly. Then they came up with this fluidic space nonsense to cover for it.

It needs to be redone in the worst way.
MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
#33 - 2012-09-11 20:12:54 UTC
With a steering wheel.
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#34 - 2012-09-11 20:24:19 UTC
For every action there is an opposite but equal reaction.
It does not matter if you are in space or not.
Point a thruster in one direction and you will move in the opposite direction.

This is a part of one of Newton's laws of conservation.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#35 - 2012-09-11 20:27:46 UTC
Magnets. Magnets are always the answer.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#36 - 2012-09-11 20:29:00 UTC
Doctor ForumAlt wrote:
The ship never turns.

The warp drive rotates space around your ship.


My favourite answer so far!

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2012-09-11 20:31:33 UTC
ISD TYPE40 wrote:
As was pointed out elsewhere on the forums, the physics in EVE are based on a super-fluid, rather than a vacuum.

Super-fluids can be affected by electromagnetic forces in a manner that causes it to become resistive. Our ships drives systems would be constantly emitting such electromagnetic waves, and by tuning those waves, or emitting them in specific directions, we would gain "traction" on the surrounding space thus allowing the ships to turn.



Magic, got it Big smile

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

stoicfaux
#38 - 2012-09-11 20:51:05 UTC
ISD TYPE40 wrote:
As was pointed out elsewhere on the forums, the physics in EVE are based on a super-fluid, rather than a vacuum.

Super-fluids can be affected by electromagnetic forces in a manner that causes it to become resistive. Our ships drives systems would be constantly emitting such electromagnetic waves, and by tuning those waves, or emitting them in specific directions, we would gain "traction" on the surrounding space thus allowing the ships to turn.


Then why do ships have exhaust emitting engines? If these electromagnetic engines really do emit exhaust, then why can't we see the exhaust of the maneuvering/control thrusters used to turn the ship?

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#39 - 2012-09-11 20:52:57 UTC
ctx2007 wrote:
derivativo wrote:
Real spaceships use gas ejectors at their fuselage to be propelled in the opposing direction: if they want to go left, they use the gas ejector at its right side. This happens because of the linear momentum conservation principle, but I guess the differential equatios are harder to explain than just saying the ship blows some air to move around.

Mr Steinberg wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Gyroscopes. Big gyroscopes.


How does gyroscopes work in a vaccum?


They don't need an atmosphere to work.


Yes like i said earlier....... Gas ejectors (same as farting out of a port hole)


Yes, It is true. If you look very very closely the battleships with higher agility have far more portholes than the ones with lower agility....
stoicfaux
#40 - 2012-09-11 21:03:17 UTC
Mr Steinberg wrote:
Doctor ForumAlt wrote:
The ship never turns.

The warp drive rotates space around your ship.


Interesting thougth, although this means that your warpdrive is actually constantly active.

Incorrect. The reality is that the engines flicker on and off at a very high rate. Reason being, that if you have multiple ships turning space around at the same instant you wind up ripping space apart. Imagine if a vinyl record[1] had two holes in it and two turntables[1] were trying to spin the record at the same time in different directions.

Instead, every ship interleaves their flickering so that one and only one ship in the entire universe has its engines in the on state at any time.

Incidentally, as the number of ships in close proximity increases, the ships begin to experience the perceptual phenomena known as "lag" (aka the "slideshow" effect) as each ship's flicker rate is reduced.


[1] For our younger viewers, a vinyl record is much like a CD but is much bigger and, instead of a beam of light, an actual needle is used to 'read' the data from it. A turntable is simply a motor that spins the disk in a manner similar to a CD (but at a much slower speed.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramophone_record


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.