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3 genuine questions for Mittens
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#81 - 2011-10-15 07:31:31 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Cerisia wrote:
I've recently returned after a long break, sailed into the whole "Incarna is bad mkay" thing (which was quite right IMO) and I've seen first hand how GS has made this game suddenly interesting and fun again (yeah ok , I don't mine - so it's not affecting me first hand)

The miners (that have balls anyway) are banding together and trying to work out ways of beating Goon attacks, Goons are suddenly everywhere in the forums. TBH I've not had as much fun in an MMO for ages and long may it continue.

That said I wouldn't trust a Goon farther than I can throw one - but that's just a healthy reaction me thinks :)


Cerisia gets it. I wish the rest of the EvE community had this attitude - positive, creative, and resilient in the face of opposition. Sadly, most wish to complain instead when presented with a challenge.

And a challenge, really, is all this 'Oxytope crisis" really is. Something to force you to change your mode of operation - find alternatives. Think outside the box, think on your feet. To push you to take risks - mine in more dangerous areas or new territory, to try new ships or towers, or other activities for income.

Think of the whole expansion fight, WiS, FiS, all that crap. The whole big deal over the last few months has been a bunch of bored players begging CCP to provide deeper challenge, and more content.

The Goons are giving that to you NOW. No waiting. No debating. It's arguable more real, and more impactful, than the Incursions CCP spent months working on.

I'll stop feeding Goon egos now, but seriously everyone - there are lots of workarounds to the Goon attacks. Step up your game. Move out of the kiddie pool and into the deep end, or you're going to get shot. The lifeguard is posted, and he's the one with the sniper rifle.


You have summed up the situation perfectly, IMO.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Lamya Fox
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2011-10-15 07:48:45 UTC
You people need to diffrentiate between Mittens the CSM and Mittens the leader of the Goons.

They are not One in the same. Think of it as a man with two hats on. When dealing with the CSM he would be representing the EVE community. But when he is playing EVE he is playing EVE as the leader of his corp/alliance.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#83 - 2011-10-15 07:53:35 UTC
One of the great things about Eve is that you can use military power to affect the economic abilities of your opponents. What we're seeing here is simply an extension of that.

Also let's not forget that in the real world there are quite a few commodities where the supply is controlled by just a handful of companies or countries. If the rest of world doesn't like it, then they're welcome to use force to grab some of that supply for themselves.

And so it is in Eve. If you don't like the Goons controlling the supply of oxygen, then take it from them.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Guy Grand
Doomheim
#84 - 2011-10-15 07:54:12 UTC
Goonswarm makes EVE better. They do that by being very capable and adept "bad guys". Are they damaging EVE with their economic warfare? No, in fact they are doing the opposite.

And no, they are not going to just get bored and do something else. The only thing that is going to stop them is finding a newer and better way to cause grief and misery. And even then that's a maybe.

What to do? Figure out how to make money from this of course, duh.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#85 - 2011-10-15 08:11:22 UTC
The amusing thing is that the OP, by the very act of making threads like this, is perpetuating and encouraging the goons in their campaign.

Indeed, one might almost suspect that he...

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Chera Frane
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2011-10-15 08:32:15 UTC
Infinimo wrote:
basically we are waving our collective dicks in the faces of the eve community


At last! The real and pathetic reason for the Goons. They are just a bunch of flashers.
Cidwm
Doomheim
#87 - 2011-10-15 08:36:43 UTC
The goons like to have a monopoly on something. Could possibly be there way of gaining extra money since im hoping people are becoming more wise to there scams, or starve oxygen resources from potential invading alliances. Not sure on the exact situation in there area of EVE space since my sources don't really bother with it but having a monopoly over 1 resource can make them very rich gits to fund there warmachine if they can pull it off. Also on a side note, would like to point out that if you look at the CSM roster for the CSM 6, 5 out of the 14 names, inlcuding the CSM chair all come the same coalition that i know of. certainly this can't be healthy for EVE for them to have such an influence on EVE from that respect as well!

It's nice to see some market PVP in action mind. Good thing i don't actually use that particual resource much :)
Cedille Mureau
Institute of Archaeology
#88 - 2011-10-15 08:51:10 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Who said that the CSM are supposed to represent everyone?

They are supposed to represent those that have voted in them. If goons are the most "organized" (heh) group in this game and can easelly set us up the CSM, then tough luck.



I am getting a little tired of posting this but here goes.Evil

Quote from the Evelopedia article "What is the CSM"

"The Scope of the CSM

The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the “greatest good for the greater player base”. The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe. It is important to keep in mind that the CSM will not have formal powers within CCP, they will have a voice inside CCP. " My emphasis.

This document was originally created by Pétur Jóhannes Óskarsson on behalf of CCP.

It's official, the article is a little outdated regarding the length of tenure in the CSM but the rest still holds true. The role of the CSM is to represent the *WHOLE* of the player community, not as some might wish to perpetuate the interests of a minority.

That's why some people are organising a hisec campaign to ensure that hisec residents are represented in the next CSM.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#89 - 2011-10-15 09:01:38 UTC
Cidwm wrote:
Also on a side note, would like to point out that if you look at the CSM roster for the CSM 6, 5 out of the 14 names, inlcuding the CSM chair all come the same coalition that i know of. certainly this can't be healthy for EVE for them to have such an influence on EVE from that respect as well!


Then maybe empire carebears should actually get out the vote the next time CSM elections come around?

Highseccers are always talking about how CCP should pander to their every whim because they supposedly represent 85% of the players (they don't, but anyway) but when CCP puts in a system that would enable their opinions and concerns to be directly represented to the development team, they all decide that spending 30 seconds on the eve-o website clicking on their favoured candidate is just too much effort and they'd much rather run another level 4 mission instead.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#90 - 2011-10-15 09:04:59 UTC
Cedille Mureau wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Who said that the CSM are supposed to represent everyone?

They are supposed to represent those that have voted in them. If goons are the most "organized" (heh) group in this game and can easelly set us up the CSM, then tough luck.



I am getting a little tired of posting this but here goes.Evil

Quote from the Evelopedia article "What is the CSM"

"The Scope of the CSM

The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the “greatest good for the greater player base”. The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe. It is important to keep in mind that the CSM will not have formal powers within CCP, they will have a voice inside CCP. " My emphasis.

This document was originally created by Pétur Jóhannes Óskarsson on behalf of CCP.

It's official, the article is a little outdated regarding the length of tenure in the CSM but the rest still holds true. The role of the CSM is to represent the *WHOLE* of the player community, not as some might wish to perpetuate the interests of a minority.

That's why some people are organising a hisec campaign to ensure that hisec residents are represented in the next CSM.



I don't see anything in there that says members of the CSM are constrained from acting in game in ways that someone doesn't like.

CSM members are just as entitled to scam, pirate, gank, invade, interdict and smack other players as any other player is. Do you have a specific complaint about the two Goonswarm CSMs with respect to their actions as CSM members?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2011-10-15 10:15:32 UTC
Goons should do something better, like reset TEST

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062
Vyl Vit
#92 - 2011-10-15 10:26:12 UTC
Oh boy. Another Goon Blob, Mr. Apostle. How they run to the bait.
A CSM that doesn't represent "us" but "them."
I've seen a picture of Mittens. . . I've seen a picture of Mittens. I think I'll leave that there.

One must consider even psychopaths can subscribe to EVE. That's where the model falls down and goes boom. Having a framework that requires some modicum of character in a character seems to at least prevent the psychologically challenged from seizing control of the show.

CCP, apparently, doesn't really care about little things like that. They're prouder of even smaller things like....this CSM.

This has run into the "as long as I get paid, who cares?" ditch. Any ascendency previously claimed has dissipated like smoke in the breeze. Ever wonder what Ho Chi Mihn meant by "paper tiger"?

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Avon
#93 - 2011-10-15 10:29:08 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
If you don't like the Goons controlling the supply of oxygen, then take it from them.



Don't listen to this man, I am making a fortune out of this.
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#94 - 2011-10-15 10:38:38 UTC
What real people Mine?!?! Not Bots?


Come on the goons kill the Market! xD

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2011-10-15 11:15:28 UTC
My only problem with what they're doing is that, realistically, it wouldn't be allowed to happen. Concord would simply destroy any Goon ships detected in high sec or high sec gates would be programmed not to allow them entry.

I'm not saying that makes for interesting gameplay, only that it would happen that way.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#96 - 2011-10-15 12:01:19 UTC
Jada Maroo wrote:
My only problem with what they're doing is that, realistically, it wouldn't be allowed to happen. Concord would simply destroy any Goon ships detected in high sec or high sec gates would be programmed not to allow them entry.

I'm not saying that makes for interesting gameplay, only that it would happen that way.


Very few things about EVE mechanics are "realistic". Especially when people try to apply cultural assumptions that derive from a massively different society to the one the EVE lore describes.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#97 - 2011-10-15 12:02:47 UTC
Headerman wrote:
Goons should do something better, like reset TEST



I'm sure they'll do that right after you guys reset Solar Fleet and XiX.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Othran
Route One
#98 - 2011-10-15 12:09:39 UTC
I'd have thought the goons activities would have made fishing very attractive to miners/high-sec players. I can see all sorts of fun you could have when you know there are random gankers about.

I probably assume too much Sad
Cedille Mureau
Institute of Archaeology
#99 - 2011-10-15 12:23:45 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I don't see anything in there that says members of the CSM are constrained from acting in game in ways that someone doesn't like.

CSM members are just as entitled to scam, pirate, gank, invade, interdict and smack other players as any other player is. Do you have a specific complaint about the two Goonswarm CSMs with respect to their actions as CSM members?



I'm not sure if this is directed at me but to make myself perfectly clear, I was responding to the post by Renan Ruivo stating that the CSM is only obliged to listen to the people who voted for them. This, presumably means the goons and their allies. What I was trying to put over for the umteenth time is that according to the document setting up the CSM, the CSM is obligated to listen to all the players in EVE not just those who voted for them. To do otherwise would be to set up a group with increased influence and access to CCP without reference to the greater interests of the game.

As to your point about the conduct (in game) of members of the CSM, I have never advocated that they be treated differently from anyone else. If they want to go around making a nuisance of themselves, provided it is done within the rules then they must be allowed to do so, to do otherwise would be to put them at a disadvantage.

Hope this clears up what I meant in my original post.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#100 - 2011-10-15 12:47:21 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Question 1) Why does Empire need to be sent "into a panic" with "drought and pestilence everywhere"?
It generates gameplay and content for the sandbox.
Quote:
Question 2) As the CSM chair (with it's inherent Eve representation), you're OK that this potentially ruins the economic model for everyone?
How does it ruin any kind of economic model?
What does his role as CSM chair have to do with it?
Quote:
Question 3) If the economic model is smashed by inflation, do you realize that CCP could simply become proactive on indy ganking and stop it all. Are you giving them cause?
How does it cause inflation?
What economic model does it smash?
How?