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[Winter] Support Cruisers

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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#61 - 2012-09-11 16:08:44 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The drones are definitely something more useful for PVE and repping i between fights. We very well could replace the drone bonus with a tracking link bonus, but we'll see.


I despise that tracking link bonus. Seriously, active tank bonuses for the ships that are designed to be the solo logi in a gang.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
JamesUtah
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2012-09-11 17:00:29 UTC
How will this affect Alliance tournaments? Will we be able to field field both a T2 logi and a T1 logi?
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2012-09-11 17:02:22 UTC
JamesUtah wrote:
How will this affect Alliance tournaments? Will we be able to field field both a T2 logi and a T1 logi?

Sure you could field both ship hulls but only one can have RR on it

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
jonnykefka
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#64 - 2012-09-11 17:05:06 UTC
Soooo it's a little to easy to fit some large-size reps and ETs on one of these under the current changes. Not inherently a bad thing, that kind of flexibility is part of EVE, but with the bonuses as phrased they can out-range the reps and ET of the t2 logi ships with larges and that seems a wee bit overpowered.

My recommendation for the easy fix (which I think has been suggested already) is make the roles bonuses specific to MEDIUM RR and ET modules. You can still fit the big stuff on there for sheer rep and transfer amount, but you won't be sitting out at 100 and repping in a t1 hull.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#65 - 2012-09-11 17:10:16 UTC
Exequror:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
5% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
100% bonus to Logistic Drone (both armor and shield) rep amount
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 4 M, 6 L (+3), 3 turrets (-1)
Fittings: 610 PWG (+110), 275 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1000(+101) / 1400(+227) / 1600(+506)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+375) / 264s(-92.25s) / 5.2 (+2.4)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+81) / 0.61 / 11020000 / 6.3s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10) / 50(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km(+7.5) / 365(+43) / 8(+3)
Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric (+2)
Signature radius: 80 (-40)
Cargo capacity: 495 (-105)


oh g-d thats damn sexy...

3 medium tech II RR

10mn II ab 2 eccm II and a cap injector

then 800 plate

dcu II

2 energised II

ex hardner

(something not sure maybe small armor rep II)

then what ever rigs fit

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2012-09-11 17:11:22 UTC
Maybe it is just me, but why would want to fit ONE large remote rep on the amarr ship when you could fit 5 medium remote reps, and have the same amount of power grid left, rep almost 2x the amount and rep 5 ships at once if needed

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Rayner Vanguard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2012-09-11 17:12:40 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Exequror:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
5% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
100% bonus to Logistic Drone (both armor and shield) rep amount
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 4 M, 6 L (+3), 3 turrets (-1)
Fittings: 610 PWG (+110), 275 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1000(+101) / 1400(+227) / 1600(+506)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+375) / 264s(-92.25s) / 5.2 (+2.4)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+81) / 0.61 / 11020000 / 6.3s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10) / 50(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km(+7.5) / 365(+43) / 8(+3)
Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric (+2)
Signature radius: 80 (-40)
Cargo capacity: 495 (-105)

Scythe:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to Shield Transporter boost amount
5% reduction in Shield Transporter cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Shield Transporters
100% bonus to Logistic Drone (both armor and shield) rep amount
Slot layout: 3 H (-2), 5 M (+2), 5 L (+2), 2 turrets (-1), 1 launcher (-1)
Fittings: 330 PWG (-95), 415 CPU (+190)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1400(+424) / 1100(+124) / 1300(+324)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1250(+468.75) / 240s(-38.75s) / 5.2 (+2.4)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 250(+47) / 0.6(+0.095) / 11110000 / 6.2s (+0.9)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 45 (+40) / 45 (+40)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km(+15) / 400(+55) / 8(+2)
Sensor strength: 13 Ladar (+2)
Signature radius: 75 (-25)
Cargo capacity: 475 (+35)


I'm not sure if relying on drones to repair is a nice idea
While, they may have their use in pve, it might be not efficient for pvp

Logi will usually be primary target, which is why they have to bounce a lot to a nearby planets to avoid targeting

The other can simply bounce and back, lock the fleetmates and start repairing again

But, the drone logi? They have to get all the drones first, bounce and back, get all of your drones, targeting, wait for the drones to arrive at their target, start repairing

The logi will have the risk of being destroyed while taking the drones

What if they just bounce off and leave the drones? The enemies can simply destroy the drones and they will do that many times until the logi doesn't have anything beside the 3 remote repair in the high slot
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2012-09-11 17:15:53 UTC
Rayner Vanguard wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Exequror:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
5% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
100% bonus to Logistic Drone (both armor and shield) rep amount
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 4 M, 6 L (+3), 3 turrets (-1)
Fittings: 610 PWG (+110), 275 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1000(+101) / 1400(+227) / 1600(+506)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+375) / 264s(-92.25s) / 5.2 (+2.4)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+81) / 0.61 / 11020000 / 6.3s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10) / 50(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km(+7.5) / 365(+43) / 8(+3)
Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric (+2)
Signature radius: 80 (-40)
Cargo capacity: 495 (-105)

Scythe:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to Shield Transporter boost amount
5% reduction in Shield Transporter cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Shield Transporters
100% bonus to Logistic Drone (both armor and shield) rep amount
Slot layout: 3 H (-2), 5 M (+2), 5 L (+2), 2 turrets (-1), 1 launcher (-1)
Fittings: 330 PWG (-95), 415 CPU (+190)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1400(+424) / 1100(+124) / 1300(+324)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1250(+468.75) / 240s(-38.75s) / 5.2 (+2.4)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 250(+47) / 0.6(+0.095) / 11110000 / 6.2s (+0.9)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 45 (+40) / 45 (+40)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km(+15) / 400(+55) / 8(+2)
Sensor strength: 13 Ladar (+2)
Signature radius: 75 (-25)
Cargo capacity: 475 (+35)


I'm not sure if relying on drones to repair is a nice idea
While, they may have their use in pve, it might be not efficient for pvp

Logi will usually be primary target, which is why they have to bounce a lot to a nearby planets to avoid targeting

The other can simply bounce and back, lock the fleetmates and start repairing again

But, the drone logi? They have to get all the drones first, bounce and back, get all of your drones, targeting, wait for the drones to arrive at their target, start repairing

The logi will have the risk of being destroyed while taking the drones

What if they just bounce off and leave the drones? The enemies can simply destroy the drones and they will do that many times until the logi doesn't have anything beside the 3 remote repair in the high slot

And if your enemies are shooting your drones what are they not shooting?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
ReK42
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#69 - 2012-09-11 17:23:07 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The drones are definitely something more useful for PVE and repping i between fights. We very well could replace the drone bonus with a tracking link bonus, but we'll see.


I'd actually rather see a buff to logi drones. They've been essentially useless outside of very specific and uncommon circumstance (the AT for example) for a long time. This suggestion does involve changes to their AI but I think it would make them much more viable in a lot of situations without creating an imbalance:

Make logi drones into a sort of hybrid sentry. They would have a base rep range of 55km which is affected by Drone Sharpshooting for 66km at level 4, 68.75km at 5. Unlike sentries, however, these drones are also able to microwarp like usual. When launched they orbit your ship. When you order them to repair something they will begin to repair it while still orbiting you if it is in range. If it is not in range they will MWD out and maintain a position that is 5km within their rep range but as close to you as possible.

The main issue with logi drones is that modern fleets are not often on the same grid for very long and you rarely have time to recall them when you need to warp. This would solve that issue. There would still be a delay in warping when using them but it will be vastly reduced. It also avoids rising making them overpowered by directly buffing their rep amount or hp and they will still be very vulnerable to AOE damage from bombs and smartbombs.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#70 - 2012-09-11 17:27:44 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The drones are definitely something more useful for PVE and repping i between fights. We very well could replace the drone bonus with a tracking link bonus, but we'll see.


I despise that tracking link bonus. Seriously, active tank bonuses for the ships that are designed to be the solo logi in a gang.

-Liang



tell that to my fox cat fleet...

i would rather see the tracking link replaced with a remote ECCM...

now that would be an ill bonus!

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#71 - 2012-09-11 17:32:24 UTC
How in the world did a Gallente T1 ship end up with more low-slots than its Amarr counterpart? Wouldn't that Exeq low be more appropriate as a high?

Bloodpetal wrote:
#1 - Are you concerned about someone putting a MONO-Large Remote Repper on these?

An Exequror can fit a Large Remote rep, which with your bonuses would mean it can reach 84km and with L5 skills do 1.75x a large repper which is equal to 4 unbonused medium reps I believe.....

So you gain ~30km range at the expense of only being able to assist a single target at a time with less repping power than you would using mediums .. if people are willing to make those sacrifices then peace be with them Big smile
Pinky Denmark wrote:
Plz make it possible to fit these ships 100% for combat if you should want to...

I'll second that. Hate sitting in a Guardian for that reason, sure it can be challenging but for the most part it is just clicking a button once in a while .. would love for a combat fit to be viable, doesn't need damage bonuses, just ability to mount the hardware.
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
To all the "CSM isn't doing anything" crowd:...

You probably are doing something, just hard to judge for the most part. Smile

As for taking credit for the Logistics Frigs .. I take it you were either lobbying for them 5+ years ago or in FW a few weeks after it launched when we started clamouring for and discussing the possibilty?
Either way, unless the CSM has a direct hand in CCP's HR department and a vote in who they should hire then you have had very little to do with the progress so far (as far as can be seen from the bleachers) .. seems like getting the Fozzman on-board is what has made the whole thing possible ... just sayin'

PS: Politicking in these threads are extremely bad form, you should be ashamed. Hope the ISD nerfs your entries!
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#72 - 2012-09-11 17:34:49 UTC
Love the principle, hate the detail.

Energy transfer bonus is great and widely used. It helps power a logi chain, or it keeps heavy cap-use combat set-ups running.

Drone bonus is appalling in most in-game uses - the idea that it might help as a pve function is so naive it makes me doubt the otherwise good ideas you guys have put forward so far.

The notion of replacing it with a tracking link bonus is even worse ! This is such a niche use I can recall the one and only time I ever tried to use this function, laughed at how utterly ineffective it was and never tried again.

Please, try a bonus that will actually have some widespread benefit for the ROLE that these ships will have, don't just shoehorn some crappy second function just because something has to be added to make it seem balanced when we all know otherwise.

Give these ships a new module and let them remotely boost resists (1 for amour, 1 for shields); that fits well with the role and creates a new and interesting twist for freighter convoys and the like. Or something along those lines. But please, not what you've mentioned so far. Cry
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#73 - 2012-09-11 17:35:58 UTC
Rayner Vanguard wrote:

I'm not sure if relying on drones to repair is a nice idea
While, they may have their use in pve, it might be not efficient for pvp

Logi will usually be primary target, which is why they have to bounce a lot to a nearby planets to avoid targeting

The other can simply bounce and back, lock the fleetmates and start repairing again

But, the drone logi? They have to get all the drones first, bounce and back, get all of your drones, targeting, wait for the drones to arrive at their target, start repairing

The logi will have the risk of being destroyed while taking the drones

What if they just bounce off and leave the drones? The enemies can simply destroy the drones and they will do that many times until the logi doesn't have anything beside the 3 remote repair in the high slot


Do not worry, these ship don't rely on drones to repair any more than current Scimitars and Oneiros' do.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#74 - 2012-09-11 17:37:28 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Nikuno wrote:
Love the principle, hate the detail.

Energy transfer bonus is great and widely used. It helps power a logi chain, or it keeps heavy cap-use combat set-ups running.

Drone bonus is appalling in most in-game uses - the idea that it might help as a pve function is so naive it makes me doubt the otherwise good ideas you guys have put forward so far.

The notion of replacing it with a tracking link bonus is even worse ! This is such a niche use I can recall the one and only time I ever tried to use this function, laughed at how utterly ineffective it was and never tried again.

Please, try a bonus that will actually have some widespread benefit for the ROLE that these ships will have, don't just shoehorn some crappy second function just because something has to be added to make it seem balanced when we all know otherwise.

Give these ships a new module and let them remotely boost resists (1 for amour, 1 for shields); that fits well with the role and creates a new and interesting twist for freighter convoys and the like. Or something along those lines. But please, not what you've mentioned so far. Cry



i second that leave the drone bonus for a tech II version of the logi frigs... and replace with remote ECCM bonus... that would be mega sick!

CCP Fozzie wrote:

Do not worry, these ship don't rely on drones to repair any more than current Scimitars and Oneiros' do.


even better reason to scrap drone bonus and replace with a usefull one like remote ECCM bonus!

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#75 - 2012-09-11 17:46:26 UTC
new bonus

Exequror:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
5% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
250% bonus to range of ECCM Projectors
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 4 M, 6 L (+3), 3 turrets (-1)
Fittings: 610 PWG (+110), 275 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1000(+101) / 1400(+227) / 1600(+506)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+375) / 264s(-92.25s) / 5.2 (+2.4)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+81) / 0.61 / 11020000 / 6.3s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10) / 50(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km(+7.5) / 365(+43) / 8(+3)
Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric (+2)
Signature radius: 80 (-40)
Cargo capacity: 495 (-105)

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2012-09-11 17:56:26 UTC
It would make more sense for T2 logistic ships to get that kind of bonus, the drone bonus would be useful

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#77 - 2012-09-11 18:00:41 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
new bonus

Exequror:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
5% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
250% bonus to range of ECCM Projectors
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 4 M, 6 L (+3), 3 turrets (-1)
Fittings: 610 PWG (+110), 275 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1000(+101) / 1400(+227) / 1600(+506)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+375) / 264s(-92.25s) / 5.2 (+2.4)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+81) / 0.61 / 11020000 / 6.3s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10) / 50(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km(+7.5) / 365(+43) / 8(+3)
Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric (+2)
Signature radius: 80 (-40)
Cargo capacity: 495 (-105)


I will one up you:

1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
250% bonus to range of ECCM Projectors
50% bonus to range of Remote Sensor Booster

Put the Warfare in Information Warfare.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#78 - 2012-09-11 18:02:55 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
new bonus

Exequror:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
5% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
250% bonus to range of ECCM Projectors
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 4 M, 6 L (+3), 3 turrets (-1)
Fittings: 610 PWG (+110), 275 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1000(+101) / 1400(+227) / 1600(+506)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+375) / 264s(-92.25s) / 5.2 (+2.4)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+81) / 0.61 / 11020000 / 6.3s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10) / 50(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km(+7.5) / 365(+43) / 8(+3)
Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric (+2)
Signature radius: 80 (-40)
Cargo capacity: 495 (-105)


I will one up you:

1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
250% bonus to range of ECCM Projectors
50% bonus to range of Remote Sensor Booster

Put the Warfare in Information Warfare.



i litterally just came you owe me new pants there buddy...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2012-09-11 18:05:41 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Marcel Devereux wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
new bonus

Exequror:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
5% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
250% bonus to range of ECCM Projectors
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 4 M, 6 L (+3), 3 turrets (-1)
Fittings: 610 PWG (+110), 275 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1000(+101) / 1400(+227) / 1600(+506)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+375) / 264s(-92.25s) / 5.2 (+2.4)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+81) / 0.61 / 11020000 / 6.3s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10) / 50(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km(+7.5) / 365(+43) / 8(+3)
Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric (+2)
Signature radius: 80 (-40)
Cargo capacity: 495 (-105)


I will one up you:

1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
250% bonus to range of ECCM Projectors
50% bonus to range of Remote Sensor Booster

Put the Warfare in Information Warfare.



i litterally just came you owe me new pants there buddy...

Why not just a whole line of information warfare ships? Make it a secondary logistic ship, kinda like how recon is
Force recon stealth recon make logistic ships and information warfare ships

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#80 - 2012-09-11 18:07:50 UTC
OP comes to mind tracking link bonus would be fine the module might get used outside of incursions then but you would need 6 mids prob on scythe to get tank prop and a couple of spares for tracking links then and add one to meds on exqueror

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using