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[Winter] Support Cruisers

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Dwindlehop
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2012-09-11 15:05:53 UTC
I just wanted to add that repair drones are useful for small gangs. If you bring only two support cruisers to a fight, repair drones make them substantially more ECM resistant. Their utility is reduced as fleet size grows, however.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#42 - 2012-09-11 15:07:29 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Fon Revedhort wrote:
So apparently your entire train of thought was based on tech2 logistics being balanced as they are? Do you really believe that's the case?

I don't quite follow but I hope you are bearing in mind Crimewatch changes are likely to have logistics gain the same aggression timer as whoever they're repping

Logistics are imbalanced stats-wise, the repping mechanics is a whole another story. So that's the question: why make another class based on false assumptions, when you inevitably will have to deal with them both in the future Question

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#43 - 2012-09-11 15:14:16 UTC
Any chance we'll see updated stats on energy transfer arrays in addition to RARs and STAs?
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#44 - 2012-09-11 15:16:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
#1 - Are you concerned about someone putting a MONO-Large Remote Repper on these?

An Exequror can fit a Large Remote rep, which with your bonuses would mean it can reach 84km and with L5 skills do 1.75x a large repper which is equal to 4 unbonused medium reps I believe.



#2 - The tracking bonus has always been a "meh" for me, and with the Exequror+Scythe, the Exequror is more likely to use it since the scythe needs the mids for shield tanking, so really - it's not a fairly balanced bonus to give to the Scythe which will always want more tank than tracking links at the end of the day in most fleet scenarios.

I could see the Exeq's getting a tracking bonus however and would help the blaster boats in a realistic fashion.

Where I am.
Hoarr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-09-11 15:20:57 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:


I could see the Exeq's getting a tracking bonus however and would help the blaster boats in a realistic fashion.



Blasters already track really well.
Hoarr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-09-11 15:22:09 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Making sure ships aren't too overpowered is always something we have to keep in mind. Sometimes ships get bonuses that are less powerful than other bonuses could have been, and that's intentional.

That's not to say that the bonus can't be changed, but I want to make it clear that we didn't give them the rep drone bonus thinking "This will be the best bonus we could ever give these ships". It was "This is a bonus that is useful in certain circumstances, provides a clear link to the T2 version and doesn't make these powerful ships too good".



Well that's fair enough, then.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#47 - 2012-09-11 15:23:35 UTC
Hoarr wrote:
Bloodpetal wrote:


I could see the Exeq's getting a tracking bonus however and would help the blaster boats in a realistic fashion.



Blasters already track really well.


I was thinking more for optimal range bonuses.

Where I am.
Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-09-11 15:23:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsubutai
edit - oops, disregard this, overlooked the changes to remote rep fitting requirements.
Hoarr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-09-11 15:27:47 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
Hoarr wrote:
Bloodpetal wrote:


I could see the Exeq's getting a tracking bonus however and would help the blaster boats in a realistic fashion.



Blasters already track really well.


I was thinking more for optimal range bonuses.



That's just a function of the weapon. No reasonable range bonus is going to help that.
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#50 - 2012-09-11 15:29:44 UTC
Plz make it possible to fit these ships 100% for combat if you should want to... A full rack of 3 guns/launchers doesn't have the bonus so shouldn't cause any issues even with plenty lowslots for damage mods? Making themed ships a bit more versatile would nothing but promote variety and enable fun WTF moments. Just because other ships are better doesn't mean you should exclude other roles?

People should not be able to guess the pilots intent with a ship based entirely on the ship type...

If Osprey = no dps logistic every time -> Eve = boring
If Osprey = often a no dps logistic -> Eve = a little bit more interesting
Hoarr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-09-11 15:32:14 UTC
Tsubutai wrote:
330 PG (412.5 with Engineering V) on the Scythe looks rather tight - T2 medium shield transporters take 100 PG each and a meta 2 MWD is 150, meaning you'd be over on PG before fitting anything else and would need multiple reactor controls or ancillary current routers to get a large shield extender on.


See module fitting changes. Also, you use the meta 4s, not the T2s.
Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-09-11 15:40:15 UTC
Hoarr wrote:
Tsubutai wrote:
330 PG (412.5 with Engineering V) on the Scythe looks rather tight - T2 medium shield transporters take 100 PG each and a meta 2 MWD is 150, meaning you'd be over on PG before fitting anything else and would need multiple reactor controls or ancillary current routers to get a large shield extender on.


See module fitting changes. Also, you use the meta 4s, not the T2s.

Yeah, I completely overlooked that, which was pretty dumb. Not sure why you'd use meta 4 over T2 given adequate fitting room, though - the better heat tolerance of the meta 4 reps doesn't really compensate for the shorter cycle time of the T2 reps/transporters, which will fit just fine on the new hulls as long as you're not a stupid who ignores changes in their PG requirements.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#53 - 2012-09-11 15:41:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde
To all the "CSM isn't doing anything" crowd:

Logi frigates (p much the entire idea of them). Cruiser rebalance WAY WAY WAY ahead of schedule. T1 Logi cruisers your logistics FCs wont turn away from fleets. And much much more cool stuff CCP Fozzie and the rest of the team are working on with our hearty encouragement.

You're welcome

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Aprudena Gist
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-09-11 15:42:42 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
To all the "CSM isn't doing anything crowd":

Cruiser rebalance WAY ahead of schedule. T1 Logi cruisers your logistics FCs wont turn away from fleets. You're welcome

The CSM didnt do this or ask for it this was all because of ccp fozzie aka Rive that pilot who knows things about the game unlike everyone on the CSM.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#55 - 2012-09-11 15:44:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde
Aprudena Gist wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
To all the "CSM isn't doing anything crowd":

Cruiser rebalance WAY ahead of schedule. T1 Logi cruisers your logistics FCs wont turn away from fleets. You're welcome

The CSM didnt do this or ask for it this was all because of ccp fozzie aka Rive that pilot who knows things about the game unlike everyone on the CSM.

Well duh we're not programmers or game designers. But accelerated rebalancing efforts were a major push by the CSM.

Soooo yes we did ask for it.

EDIT: If it wasn't clear, all this is possible thanks to CCP Fozzie and the hard working guys on the CCP balance team. But that we even have a robustly staffed balance team with their foot on the gas to completely revamp combat is a very new thing. The tiericide process got rolling last expansion but it's picked up major momentum now and I am very excited for more changes coming soon.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#56 - 2012-09-11 15:46:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Fon Revedhort
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
To all the "CSM isn't doing anything crowd":

Cruiser rebalance WAY ahead of schedule. T1 Logi cruisers your logistics FCs wont turn away from fleets. You're welcome

That's the whole point: all we hear is fleets, fleets, fleets.

Any intentions of improving solo and small-scale combat? And no, introduction of uttely OP ASB is not what sane people call an improvement.

Things like:
- cynoes and hot-drops
- overtanking
- ease of intel

come to mind. Also, as said above, introduction of cheap-ass version of logistics, which already were quite dominant in EVE, is hardly a step in right direction.

Anyway, I'd like to see what Fozzie himself thinks about it.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Ruareve
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-09-11 15:49:04 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Aprudena Gist wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
To all the "CSM isn't doing anything crowd":

Cruiser rebalance WAY ahead of schedule. T1 Logi cruisers your logistics FCs wont turn away from fleets. You're welcome

The CSM didnt do this or ask for it this was all because of ccp fozzie aka Rive that pilot who knows things about the game unlike everyone on the CSM.

Well duh we're not programmers or game designers. But accelerated rebalancing efforts were a major push by the CSM.

Soooo yes we did ask for it.



Yep, jump in front of the herd and point to how you are leading the charge. Typical politics.


As for the changes. I really like the looks of them. I've used the Osprey as a pure Logi bird even though it truly was horrible at the job. With these changes I can see risking an Osprey instead of a T2 bird while learning how to operate in a fleet better or when funds are tight.

Thank you CCP

Yet another blog about Eve- http://ruar-eve.blogspot.com/
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#58 - 2012-09-11 15:59:32 UTC
Unforgiven Storm wrote:
100% bonus to Logistic Drone (both armor and shield) rep amount

ShockedWhat?

nobody uses drones on logistic ships in battle situations.

fleets now a days are warped arround the battlefields on a nonstop basis


Other types of fleet exist. Smaller ones, more like gangs, possibly called "small-gangs", where tactical warping is rarer. In these situations the repper drones would be useful - although I acknowledge that you could quite easily argue that ECM drones would be more useful. It' also worth noting that ECM and RSDs are more potent in small-gang environments, and that repper drones offer a way of continuing to apply RR in an ewar-heavy environment.

So maybe not the greatest bonus, but not useless either. Regarding a tracking link bonus, I think we should be wary of ways that increase a ship's tracking or range with short-range weapons too much, "blapping" can easily become excessive.
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#59 - 2012-09-11 16:01:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcel Devereux
The Exequror makes a better combat shield tanker than it does a armor logi:

[Exequror, Armor Tanking Is A Joke!]

Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Overdrive Injector System II
Tracking Enhancer II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Medium Shield Maintenance Bot II x5


All V the PG/CPU would be 762.5/343.75. This fit only takes up 577.8/337.5. I'm sure you can tweak this more to have better tank and damage output (currently 209) as I did this by hand.

The reps on the drones is 360 raw hitpoints every 5 seconds, just under one T2 armor rep on the Augoror or Exequror. Still a better tackler than a armor logi. Also this thing is faster than the current Rupture (1,644.49 vs 1,591.35). Hmm. Maybe this will fit into the Alpha Rupture fleets. Reps+DPS. Let's poor another one out for our Armor hommies.

EDIT: The speed was without taking the Overdrive into account. Just All V and with a microwarp.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#60 - 2012-09-11 16:03:29 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

They also rely more strongly on role bonuses than skill bonuses so that they will continue to be viable even without Cruiser 5.


I believe that the range role bonus is fine but the drone rep amount/energy transfer role bonus is going too far. I'll look at the ship stats soon. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.