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[Winter] Support Cruisers

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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2012-09-11 12:32:58 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Ytterbium
:Updated October 24th with the changes posted here:

Hello all you wonderful post-ladies and post-gentlemen out there! Got another batch of ships for your perusal. This is the first set of the tech one cruisers that we're rebalancing for the Winter. CCP Ytterbium released his newest dev blog today going over the general overviews of what we're up to with ship balancing, and this forum is the place to be for the details and discussion.

These are the Support Cruisers, tech one remote repair ships designed to operate alongside or instead of the famous T2 Logistics ships.
Our goal with these ships is to continue what we're starting with the Support Frigates and provide a complete path for new players all the way into T2 Logistics ships. With the skill requirements relaxed for barges and the ORE mining frigate coming in the winter, there's no more need for racial ships with mining bonuses. These ships are distinctly weaker than their T2 versions, but they are designed to be capable in the ways that really count for participation in a mixed T1/T2 fleet.

If we've done our job right then when a newer player shows up to your Armour Hac fleet saying "I've got an Augoror how can I help?" the FC will respond with "xxxxx is our logistics channel, the guys in there will get you set up with the cap chain and anchor", rather than "LOLN00B come back with a real ship".

Towards this goal these ships are very close to their T2 counterparts in range, speed/agility, cap chain ability, and cap stability. They should be able to hang out with the rest of your Logi crew and do their thing at reduced effectiveness.
They also rely more strongly on role bonuses than skill bonuses so that they will continue to be viable even without Cruiser 5.
The downside for their cheapness and low skill requirements will mainly be rep amount (at most 2/3 of a 4 rep T2 Logi), sig radius, sensor strength and ehp/resists.

Just like the Logi frigate balance pass we're hitting the modules at the same time, reducing some fitting requirements on medium remote reps significantly:

Meta typeName power cpu
0 Medium Remote Armor Repair System I 120 20
1 Medium I-ax Regenerative Projector 120 19
2 Medium Coaxial Regenerative Projector 120 18
3 Medium 'Arup' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction 120 17
4 Medium 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction 120 16
5 Medium Remote Armor Repair System II 132 24
7 Love' Medium Remote Armor Repair system I 105 16
11 Centum C-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System 181 24
11 Corelum C-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System 132 24
12 Centum B-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System 187 24
12 Corelum B-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System 132 24
13 Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System 192 24
13 Corelum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System 132 24
0 Medium Shield Transporter I 40 63
1 Medium Asymmetric Barrier Transpositioner I 40 59
2 Medium Murky Shield Screen Transmitter I 40 57
3 Medium 'Atonement' Ward Projector 40 50
4 Medium S95A Partial Shield Transporter 40 54
5 Medium Shield Transporter II 50 76
11 Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Transporter 50 76
11 Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Transporter 50 97
12 Gistum B-Type Medium Shield Transporter 50 76
12 Pithum B-Type Medium Shield Transporter 50 100
13 Gistum A-Type Medium Shield Transporter 50 76
13 Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Transporter 50 104


Now shipstats:

Augoror:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
12.5% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
5% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers and Energy Transfers
200% bonus to Energy Transfer Array transfer amount
Slot layout: 5 H (+1), 3 M (+1), 5 L, 3 turrets
Fittings: 650 PWG (+175), 275 CPU (+50)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1000(+140) / 1650(+321) / 1550(+221)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1500(+562.5) / 300s(-35s) / 5 (+2.2015)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 210(+57) / 0.68(+0.055) / 10730000 / 6.8s (+0.5)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20(+15) / 20(+15)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 62.5km(+20) / 385(+57) / 8(+3)
Sensor strength: 14 Radar (+3)
Signature radius: 90 (-20)
Cargo capacity: 465

Osprey:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
12.5% bonus to Shield Transporter boost amount
5% reduction in Shield Transporter cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Shield Transporters and Energy Transfers
200% bonus to Energy Transfer Array transfer amount
Slot layout: 5 H (+1), 5 M (+1), 3 L, 1 turret (-2), 2 launchers
Fittings: 425 PWG (-50), 410 CPU (+135)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1650(+477) / 1000(+24) / 1450(+356)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+531.25) / 275s(-26.25s) / 5 (+2.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 200(+47) / 0.59(+0.085) / 11230000 / 6.2s (+0.9)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20 / 20
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km(+12.5) / 350(+39) / 8(+3)
Sensor strength: 16 Gravimetric (+2)
Signature radius: 95 (-30)
Cargo capacity: 485

Exequror:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
12.5% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
5% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
100% bonus to Logistic Drone (both armor and shield) rep amount
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 4 M, 6 L (+3), 3 turrets (-1)
Fittings: 610 PWG (+110), 275 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1000(+101) / 1400(+227) / 1600(+506)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+375) / 264s(-92.25s) / 5.2 (+2.4)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+81) / 0.61 / 11020000 /...

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Scaugh
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-09-11 12:43:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Scaugh
First!!!!


edit: Yes I am
Guillome Renard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-09-11 12:45:43 UTC
While the loss of the other ship-to-ship support (tracking links) and the exeq's cargo bonus are (minorly) regrettable, I do like that the T1 boats are now proper training hulls for the T2 logistics. That's a big win. As a long-time advocate for the use of the Osprey and Exeq as T1 training logi, it's great that Amarr and Minnie pilots can get into it much more easily now.

I wonder if we'll see any ships that are going to be bonused for tracking links/resebo and other such fun, ideally at low-skill requirements. Such roles are wonderful for folks who (like many of my friends) have literally no combat skills, being dedicated miners, researchers, and industrialists. I will be the first to confess that this is an infraniche need but it has allowed me to bring friends along on fleets to which they could not have contributed in any other way. (And they can still do it, just now without bonuses.)

http://fcftw.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=662501
Inepsa1987
#4 - 2012-09-11 12:46:01 UTC
This is gonna be fun Attention

Spaceship Pilot.
Lord Azori
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#5 - 2012-09-11 12:52:48 UTC
I like this, A LOT.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#6 - 2012-09-11 12:55:04 UTC
why does the scythe and exqueror to a lesser extent have so many lows?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#7 - 2012-09-11 12:56:56 UTC
Nice!

Now where is my Maller? O.o

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-09-11 12:56:57 UTC
I love reading about ship improvements like this, it makes my day Big smile

People might actually use the augoror now - shocking! I think it gained the most from this update.

The numbers look pretty good, I'll leave it to the math geniuses to figure out the details tho, keep 'em coming fozzie Big smile

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#9 - 2012-09-11 12:57:33 UTC
Crude math - 1000% range bonus is 60km. Daaaaamn!
Arbiter Reformed
I Have a Plan
Shadow Cartel
#10 - 2012-09-11 12:59:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Arbiter Reformed
Harvey James wrote:
why does the scythe and exqueror to a lesser extent have so many lows?


I imagine its because they are forced to use natural regen for cap


also what does this mean for the Navy versions of the ships if anything?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#11 - 2012-09-11 13:03:21 UTC
Arbiter Reformed wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
why does the scythe and exqueror to a lesser extent have so many lows?


I imagine its because they are forced to use natural regen for cap


also what does this mean for the Navy versions of the ships if anything?


Yes i was thinking cap relays or nano's but the T2 logi don't get so many lows or need them to be cap stable was curious as too why design a ship that needs so many cap relays too work

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-09-11 13:03:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilbaron
one of the main reasons why i dont like flying logis is an interface that is made for some different purpose (one that i have not yet found)


is there any chance that we will see improvements there ?
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2012-09-11 13:10:00 UTC
100% bonus to Logistic Drone (both armor and shield) rep amount

ShockedWhat?

nobody uses drones on logistic ships in battle situations.

fleets now a days are warped arround the battlefields on a nonstop basis, you put your drones out, you lose them 1 minute later... As a logistic pilot I not even put logi drones in my ship, only combat ones to try to whore on killmails, normally I lose them all 2 minutes after the battle starts...

the drones are too slow to move, normally logis are at the edge of drone range 40-50 away from main fleet, what makes its operation a problem. So you have to lock someone, send the drone command to move, by the time they arrive the target is dead...

unless the logi drones speed and range usability gets a huge boost I can't see mutch usage for them...

Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-)
Idrissil
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-09-11 13:11:49 UTC
Dronebonus is not rly cool. Flashied ****** up with them, cause they cant use them on Gates, cause sentries penetrate them easily within seconds.

Whats about the faction cruisers? Are they getting new support role too?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#15 - 2012-09-11 13:14:21 UTC
im a little concerned about the speed 1500k/ms with mwd roughly if my calculations are in the right area i was hoping for closer to 2000k/ms as a benchmark for cruisers but maybe the attack cruisers will hopefully

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Deena Amaj
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-09-11 13:18:56 UTC
This is just great - Seriously :)!

For Scythe, it was damn necessary. It was half mining cruiser, half nothing. For it being some sort of Support Cruiser with Tracking Links bonuses, it simply lacked Medslots.

Quote:
I wonder if we'll see any ships that are going to be bonused for tracking links/resebo and other such fun, ideally at low-skill requirements. Such roles are wonderful for folks who (like many of my friends) have literally no combat skills, being dedicated miners, researchers, and industrialists.



^This.
Sticking to Tracking Links topic,
One may assume that Tracking Links would be more useful for people if it had a base 20km range of some sort. I must say though that I would not want Tracking Links to receive a higher range without a ship bonus, because then we would have the same effect like Painters on Drakes, where everybody just uses it as a tool just to make more dmg, rather than people who devoted themselves to flying that particular ship.

I always had a stash of Scythes but never really got to use them since they only had 3 Medslots (minus one for the propulsion mod; btw, this is why I made that aux civilian medslot idea...)

I would love to see another T1 ship (be it Frigate or Cruiser) that actually applies Tracking Link/Remote Sebo/Remote ECCM/etc bonuses.
Or *gasp* Give these cruisers here a third role bonus. It would not hurt that much. With these being T1 Support Cruiser exclusives, one would really want to take them along. :>

confirthisposmed

I'm probably typing on a Tablet too, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#17 - 2012-09-11 13:27:04 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Crude math - 1000% range bonus is 60km. Daaaaamn!


WITH CIVILIAN REPAIRER IT IS 150km !
JetCord
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-09-11 13:29:36 UTC
few question that need answers

1) when will the changes occurs in test server (sisi or bucky)
2) will the support cruiser follow the T2 logi doctrine - amarr/caldari - need logi partner / gallente/minmatar - cap stable at logi 5?
3) if it does follow the same as the t2 version - the question of why scythe and exequror - has too many lows or CCP expect us to armor tank both of them.

i do agree that giving drone bonus to the scythe and exeequror are wasted - most fleet are moving here and there - unless your were thinking of using them for PVE

BTW love these changes and keep them rolling
Li Charen-Teng
#19 - 2012-09-11 13:33:29 UTC
All those newbies in huge alliances will love this. Big smile

Checking EVE GATE every few minutes...
Hoarr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-09-11 13:39:31 UTC
Fozzie, I think that the augeror and the osprey can too easily be gamed to be used exclusively for cap feeding right now. It looks like you can fit 2 large cap relays on them fairly easily (w/ acr and rcu) which will half rep a battleship capacitor per cycle from about 90k. I understand why you chose to use the bonus that you did to make them a viable part of a cap chain, but you might want to consider a different bonus to keep them a workable member of a cap chain while preventing that kind of abuse.

As far as the drone bonus goes, maybe replacing it with a cap recharge bonus or an MWD cap reduction bonus to help them do their jobs without a cap buddy.
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