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Tracking disruption for missiles and missile damage reduction..Got Flares??

Author
2ofSpades
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-09-10 22:42:35 UTC
There is no active weapon disruption for missiles. Flares would be such a cool looking mod to have because defender missiles are crap. Instead of disruption they could have a hit/miss chance to some degree or maybe some sort of damage reduction equal to tracking disruption. The only problem is the idea is setup like defender missiles because the only friendly that could defend would be a ship with flares. You could make some sort of shotgun style projectile that spreads flares or chaffs 10km in front of the affected ship so you can apply the penalty like a tracking disruptor I guess.

Active Missile Defense-Medium Slot

You could have two different scripts.
Chaffs for standard, heavy, and cruise missiles
Flares for rockets, assaults, torps



At the same time you can fix the damage reduction on some of the current missiles. Pretty much all of the t2 precision and javelin ammo needs some major damage reduction help excluding rockets.
Nnamuachs
Kiith Paktu
Reeloaded.
#2 - 2012-09-11 10:08:41 UTC
Tracking disruptors increase the explosion radius (or decrease the explosion velocity, i forget which) of missiles.
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#3 - 2012-09-11 10:37:25 UTC
Nnamuachs wrote:
Tracking disruptors increase the explosion radius (or decrease the explosion velocity, i forget which) of missiles.


No.

CCP was planning to do that but they have scrapped the idea for now.
Doddy
Excidium.
#4 - 2012-09-11 11:09:34 UTC
or they could just fix defenders.....
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#5 - 2012-09-11 12:25:38 UTC
Doddy wrote:
or they could just fix defenders.....


TDs can be used by any ship. Defenders can be used *only* on missile boats.
So you can 'disrupt' turret boats from any ship but the only way to 'disrupt' missile boats is to fly missile boat.

Not that I'm suggesting defenders are fine the way they are.
Elshar Khandar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-09-11 12:58:54 UTC
Defenders could certainly do with a tweak or two.
Uris Vitgar
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-09-11 14:32:59 UTC
I think TDs should affect missiles, but with the optimal range effect rather than the tracking effect. You can reduce the "optimal range" of missiles by reducing their velocity, then also maybe with enough TDs a small ship could actually outrun the missiles
Velicitia
XS Tech
#8 - 2012-09-11 14:39:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
Doddy wrote:
or they could just fix defenders.....


TDs can be used by any ship. Defenders can be used *only* on missile boats.
So you can 'disrupt' turret boats from any ship but the only way to 'disrupt' missile boats is to fly missile boat.

Not that I'm suggesting defenders are fine the way they are.


Well, they can be used on any ship with a launcher slot ... granted this means sacrificing a turret in some cases. And, yeah, since "moar DPS" is preferred for ships, well we probably won't see that happening ...

hi slots/turret/launcher

Battleships :
Abaddon -- 8/8/1*
Apoc -- 8/8/2*
'Geddon -- 8/8/0
Domi -- 6/6/0
Hyp -- 8/8/1*
Mega -- 8/7/2
Mael -- 8/8/3*
Raven -- 8/4/6
Rokh -- 8/8/4*
Scorp -- 6/4/4
'Pest -- 8/6/4
'Phoon -- 8/5/5

Battlecruisers (Tier1/2):
Brutix -- 7/7/0
Cyclone -- 8/5/3
Drake -- 8/0/7
Ferox -- 7/6/5
Harby -- 8/7/0
'Cane -- 8/6/3
Myrmidon -- 6/6/0
Prophecy -- 7/6/1

* = would have to sacrifice a turret for defenders.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#9 - 2012-09-11 15:18:13 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
[
And, yeah, since "moar DPS" is preferred for ships, well we probably won't see that happening ...


That's exactly the reason why I forgot that some turret ships even get launcher hardpoints.Lol

Defenders would need to be really good to make it sensible ( when you take into consideration that realistically you could only use 1 slot for that ) but then they might be too good on missile boats.
Maybe some special defender-only launcher, which would provide big bonuses to defenders could work. If fitting one of those in your hislot could give similar effect to those of tracking disruptor then it might be actually useful on some setups.

Velicitia
XS Tech
#10 - 2012-09-11 15:45:07 UTC
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
Velicitia wrote:

And, yeah, since "moar DPS" is preferred for ships, well we probably won't see that happening ...


That's exactly the reason why I forgot that some turret ships even get launcher hardpoints.Lol

Defenders would need to be really good to make it sensible ( when you take into consideration that realistically you could only use 1 slot for that ) but then they might be too good on missile boats.
Maybe some special defender-only launcher, which would provide big bonuses to defenders could work. If fitting one of those in your hislot could give similar effect to those of tracking disruptor then it might be actually useful on some setups.



A psuedo-bonused "Defender Launcher" would help, provided that these couldn't get further bonused by being on a missile boat. However, missile boats using the normal launchers (and reloading to defenders) would have a slight edge IF they trained to L5 for that hull.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#11 - 2012-09-11 16:11:31 UTC
Defenders need their own launcher, one that doesn't use any type of hardpoint. That way anyone can fit them if they can spare a high slot.


Add this to fixing them to be useful, and defenders are now useful and usable.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-09-11 16:41:57 UTC
Uris Vitgar wrote:
I think TDs should affect missiles, but with the optimal range effect rather than the tracking effect. You can reduce the "optimal range" of missiles by reducing their velocity, then also maybe with enough TDs a small ship could actually outrun the missiles



NO..

That would be quite unfair...

You have dampeners to limit our targetting range which is the same as limiting our missile range.. If we can't target, we can't shoot.

Currently you have damps and jams to use against missiles.

Explosion velocity and radius are essentially our version of tracking, so it would have to effect one of these two catagories.

That said though, missile boats have enough problems in pvp without worrying about disruptors.

Now, I do feel that defendors need to be reworked, however, I also feel that fof need to be reworked.
notha atfast
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-09-11 16:53:50 UTC
I think this should be more of an Ewar module instead of a turret. Some sort of missle spoofing system. It pulls missles off target. You can run multiple but has stacking penalties. Not sure what the % of missle tracking lost should be used. but say 5-10 % of all incoming missles fired at your ship.

I think this would be something used to counter Drake fleets and the 100MN AB Tengu. But it's just my .02
Uris Vitgar
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-09-11 17:16:28 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:

NO..

That would be quite unfair...


You're right, that would still be be unfair on the turrets. Turrets would be affected by both tracking-scripted and optimal-scripted TDs, whereas the missiles would only be affected by optimal-scriped TDs. Still, it's better than nothing, and makes reasonable sense in terms of what a tracking disruptor might actually do to a missile.
Utsen Dari
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-09-11 17:26:44 UTC
What if defender missiles had the capability to engage a missile heading for a fleetmate? I'm seeing an aegis antimissile fit with fleet role similar to the firewall ships in use today.
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#16 - 2012-09-11 17:31:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tomcio FromFarAway
Joe Risalo wrote:

Currently you have damps and jams to use against missiles.


Which is different from dampening and jamming turret ships in what way exactly?
EDIT :
I would even say that jammers are not as effective when used against missile boats as they are against turret boats because of FoFs.

Joe Risalo wrote:

Explosion velocity and radius are essentially our version of tracking, so it would have to effect one of these two catagories.


Tracking Disruptors affect both tracking and range ( both optimal and fallof ) of turret boats. You can amplify one form of disruption by using scripts but the point is they affect both.

Joe Risalo wrote:

That said though, missile boats have enough problems in pvp without worrying about disruptors.


Serious question : What are those problems?
I ask because I don't fly missile boats that often and the ones I used ( Drake, Tengu ) were excellent in terms of pvp effectiveness.
Is there a problem with missiles in general or is it rather limited to specific hulls or types of missiles?
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#17 - 2012-09-11 23:13:01 UTC
How about this?

Counter Measure Launcher

Does not use a hard point
High slot module
No cap use
Does use PG

Fires one at a time, but they last longer than the RoF.

It works like the real thing, with a chance of the missile hitting the wrong object.
TP counters it, decreasing the chance.
Designed to be a utility high slot module.



Missiles are different than guns; so too should the counter to it be.
tankus2
HeartVenom Inc.
#18 - 2012-09-12 04:42:22 UTC
I'm liking many of the concepts being thought of in this thread. Especially since, as a missile maniac, there seems to be too few trials for my missiles and nothing that really counters them. Once spaceborne, they'll head for the target regardless of my status (jammed, out of lock range, or destroyed even) and kill just about everything.

Where the science gets done

Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#19 - 2012-09-12 04:45:27 UTC
Missiles aren't that good. We don't need more ways to nerf them.
Lilianna Star
Vagrant Empress
#20 - 2012-09-12 05:20:03 UTC
Do we really need to set missiles back from turrets?

Turrets and missiles have their own individual advantages. Turrets deal damage instantly, cannot be outrun, cannot be destroyed midflight and other things. Missiles aren't affected by tracking and never miss unless out of range.

There's a good balance between the two and it creates situations where there's some depth and choice between which you want to use based on the specified advantages.

And despite the fact that you would think that being able to have perfect accuracy even at top speed and being immune to tracking disruption, turrets are still the weapon of choice for PVP.

Why do you feel the need to take that away? Did some Tengu with an MWD hurt your feelings?
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