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Low sec myths

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Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2012-09-11 09:42:50 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Some of this "myth" might come from carebear-ats sitting in starter-corps/-systems and ruining the noobs ...


Something similar I suspected...horror stories told by carbears while orbiting a burning Hulk in an Ice Field during the long romantic nights in High Sec...

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#42 - 2012-09-11 09:54:54 UTC
Dek Screek wrote:
Darek Castigatus wrote:

The last new guy I killed (little 3 week old coercer pilot happily ratting away in our home system with not a care in the world) I not only gave him enough isk to get him back on his feet but also gave him a load of advice about surviving in lowsec and what to expect when you spend a lot of time there. Genuine new players should be educated and encouraged and a swift death followed by friendly advice is often the best way to do that.


Aww this reminded me when I started. When I was 2 weeks old I decided that high-sec misisoning was way too boring and I had to move in low-sec ("maybe is different there or at least they say agents pay more"); so I moved to Evati and started to do level 1 and 2 missions in the area.

In my very first days there I had a pirate entering in my mission; I was fast enough to warp in a safe spot (I studied before moving and I heard that was good to have safe spots). I thought was "safe" there, but of course the pirate jumped in there and destoryed my ship.

Then he convoed me ( I think he noticed the young age, was about 2-3 weeks) and asked me if I could afford to replace my loss and offered in case to refund me. I said was ok, the ship had insurance anyway and asked him what was wrong in my safe spot and how was he able to find me. He told me "your safe spot was fine, but I'm using probes". I was kinda like "wow, there're probes too...?". So he explained me the basics of probing and gave me some tutorials about it.

The outcome of this was:

1. I was never catched again in a mission site
2. I started to try and enjoy all the probes thing and started to develop exploration as profession and gameplay, that's what I still do today.

yes, I also lost a T1 ship. But I think was a fair trade.


This sort of thing is exactly what I'm talking about. If you're willing to look at what you can learn from a loss and from the guy who killed you rather than rage about it then you'll have no issues in lowsec.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#43 - 2012-09-11 09:58:22 UTC
Just turn all of lowsec into NPC null. Unless CCP actually plans on changing it completely it will always be useless.

Also about the whole gate camp, it varies on where you are. Most major highsec-lowsec connections will be camped, once you get past the first few systems it's usually a ghost town.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Elmanketticks
In Fidem
Outsmarted
#44 - 2012-09-11 10:00:08 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Also about the whole gate camp, it varies on where you are. Most major highsec-lowsec connections will be camped, once you get past the first few systems it's usually a ghost town.

Except when you're in a militia which makes lowsec an even greater place to be since there's usually WTs all over the place!

The State will not fall. Join us. Fight. Conquer.

edit: disregard that, the state has fallen.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#45 - 2012-09-11 10:03:03 UTC
Its lowsec anyone you don't know should be considered a target, regardless of FW standings.

Which reminds me sec loss is another bad idea for lowsec. If concord is too lazy to patrol lowsec then wtf are they doing removing security status. Keep sec loss for highsec criminal actions only.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Elmanketticks
In Fidem
Outsmarted
#46 - 2012-09-11 10:05:13 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Its lowsec anyone you don't know should be considered a target, regardless of FW standings.

Which reminds me sec loss is another bad idea for lowsec. If concord is too lazy to patrol lowsec then wtf are they doing removing security status. Keep sec loss for highsec criminal actions only.

Amen to that!

The State will not fall. Join us. Fight. Conquer.

edit: disregard that, the state has fallen.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#47 - 2012-09-11 10:08:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
Just go to 0.0 if you dont like sec status loss

o/
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#48 - 2012-09-11 10:11:41 UTC
Souisa wrote:
Just go to 0.0 if you dont like sec status loss


Quite a stupid reasoning. Sec loss doesn't actually add anything nor does it actually prevent anything in regards to lowsec, it actually prevents some from PVPing in Lowsec. So if it actually has no effect in low sec then why is it gained in there?

Saying just go to 0.0 is a lazy rebuttal. Try harder.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#49 - 2012-09-11 10:14:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Souisa wrote:
Just go to 0.0 if you dont like sec status loss


Quite a stupid reasoning. Sec loss doesn't actually add anything nor does it actually prevent anything in regards to lowsec, it actually prevents some from PVPing in Lowsec. So if it actually has no effect in low sec then why is it gained in there?

Saying just go to 0.0 is a lazy rebuttal. Try harder.


The sec hits are the foundation of low-sec, its what actually make it work. If players cant distingiush the dedicated pirate from the industry or exploration guy, low-sec will loose its appeal for these people. If you are the pirate guy, you will most likely be in low-sec just so you can kill these people. But if you remove their tools or way to distingiush you from a normal or peaceful player, they wont come inside low-sec anymore. And if people could shoot each other without consequence low-sec would eventually become desolated

o/
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#50 - 2012-09-11 10:15:24 UTC
Rancer <3

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2012-09-11 10:20:48 UTC
Souisa wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Souisa wrote:
Just go to 0.0 if you dont like sec status loss


Quite a stupid reasoning. Sec loss doesn't actually add anything nor does it actually prevent anything in regards to lowsec, it actually prevents some from PVPing in Lowsec. So if it actually has no effect in low sec then why is it gained in there?

Saying just go to 0.0 is a lazy rebuttal. Try harder.


There should be consequences for attacking someone in low-sec. At least there should be a way to distingush the dedicated pirate from the industry or exploration guy or what have you. If you really want PVP with no strings attached there is already a place like this and its 0.0

And could you care to give a reason about why *you* believe there should be a secloss in lowsec ?

It doesn't make sense and it *does* discourage noobs from fighting in lowsec, because most *have* to rely on
highsec to make money. Well, actually, almost everybody i've seen who's above -5 relys on highsec to make money ...
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#52 - 2012-09-11 10:21:53 UTC
Souisa wrote:


There should be consequences for attacking someone in low-sec. At least there should be a way to distingush the dedicated pirate from the industry or exploration guy or what have you. If you really want PVP with no strings attached there is already a place like this and its 0.0


That still doesn't answer my question. If you only live in lowsec then getting -10 has no consequences. So as I said there is no overall effect in lowsec then you shouldn't lose sec status in lowsec. Highsec should be the only place where you can lose sec status, since it is the only place that actually has consequences.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2012-09-11 10:24:00 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Tyrozan
We need to force carebears away from noobs.-EDIT- No personal attacks, please ISD Tyrozan shouldn't ruin
the game for people who don't even know how it works ...
Sabrina Solette
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-09-11 10:34:16 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Tyrozan
Solstice Project wrote:
We need to force carebears away from noobs. -EDIT- No personal attacks, please ISD Tyrozan shouldn't ruin
the game for people who don't even know how it works ...



I don't even think it's the community that ruins the experience for new players, it's the game mechanics.

New player starts they have limited isk and trained skills, so they set out to train up skills as quickly as they can which means investing their limited resources (isk) in learning implants. As soon as they've got those implants they're trapped in high-sec as they can't afford to lose them and they don't have access to jump clones because it takes time to get 8.0 standing with a corp.

I know that some corps offer services for jump clones but they would have to leave the starter corp which they can't get back to which is not good for a new player.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#55 - 2012-09-11 10:48:18 UTC
Paul Oliver wrote:
Selinate wrote:
low sec is null on easy mode....
Judging by the comments I've seen about how so many of the nullsec alliances are blue to each other I think maybe it's the reverse.



You've seen or read a lot of stuff but in the end you know absolutely nothing what you are talking about, and look rather idiot to people living there and knowing what it looks like.

Fake low sec pirates don't want to go there because they can not camp gates for hours and kill everything, they don't want to be trapped in bubbles because requires :effort: and might loose ships, they don't want to adopt a minimal behaviour regarding colour standing or the smallest effort for the greater good.
They still and always will prefer camp gates and brainlessly shoot everything passing by, what an awesome game play.

brb
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#56 - 2012-09-11 10:59:13 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Souisa wrote:


There should be consequences for attacking someone in low-sec. At least there should be a way to distingush the dedicated pirate from the industry or exploration guy or what have you. If you really want PVP with no strings attached there is already a place like this and its 0.0


That still doesn't answer my question. If you only live in lowsec then getting -10 has no consequences. So as I said there is no overall effect in lowsec then you shouldn't lose sec status in lowsec. Highsec should be the only place where you can lose sec status, since it is the only place that actually has consequences.



Has not much more than low sec, they still need an alt character to bring ships and gank your stuff. -5.1 banned from high sec this would be a step and increase activity in low, but guess what, this simple idea would make this forum all wet with their tsunami of tears because CCP wouldn't hold their hand any more.

Choosing your career should have real consequences not the joke it is, and standings gain with Empire again should be the hardest task in Eve.

brb
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2012-09-11 11:24:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Sabrina Solette wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
We need to force carebears away from noobs. These decadent, spoiled, diaper wearing sissies shouldn't ruin
the game for people who don't even know how it works ...



I don't even think it's the community that ruins the experience for new players, it's the game mechanics.

New player starts they have limited isk and trained skills, so they set out to train up skills as quickly as they can which means investing their limited resources (isk) in learning implants. As soon as they've got those implants they're trapped in high-sec as they can't afford to lose them and they don't have access to jump clones because it takes time to get 8.0 standing with a corp.

I know that some corps offer services for jump clones but they would have to leave the starter corp which they can't get back to which is not good for a new player.

Make an alt, sit in startercorp for a while, observe yourself.
The most influence is to be had in the early days, in startercorps.
Dare and try talking about lowsec. ^_^

Drop starter corp, make your own, join noobcorp.
Dare talking about lowsec.

You do the mistake most people do. Blame a game about how people make choices, instead of blaming the people
for their choices and trying to correct them.


edit: That was written in a haste. You *may* be partly right about the implants, although i thought they get them with
tutorial missions ? I still haven't run the new ones ...
Sabrina Solette
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-09-11 11:46:55 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Sabrina Solette wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
We need to force carebears away from noobs. These decadent, spoiled, diaper wearing sissies shouldn't ruin
the game for people who don't even know how it works ...



I don't even think it's the community that ruins the experience for new players, it's the game mechanics.

New player starts they have limited isk and trained skills, so they set out to train up skills as quickly as they can which means investing their limited resources (isk) in learning implants. As soon as they've got those implants they're trapped in high-sec as they can't afford to lose them and they don't have access to jump clones because it takes time to get 8.0 standing with a corp.

I know that some corps offer services for jump clones but they would have to leave the starter corp which they can't get back to which is not good for a new player.

Make an alt, sit in startercorp for a while, observe yourself.
The most influence is to be had in the early days, in startercorps.
Dare and try talking about lowsec. ^_^

Drop starter corp, make your own, join noobcorp.
Dare talking about lowsec.

You do the mistake most people do. Blame a game about how people make choices, instead of blaming the people
for their choices and trying to correct them.


edit: That was written in a haste. You *may* be partly right about the implants, although i thought they get them with
tutorial missions ? I still haven't run the new ones ...




Most new people aim for +3 implants because although expensive for a new player they're achieveable given sometime to gain the isk and of course only need lvl 1 in cybernetics. It's this coupled with no access to jump clones early on that tends to prevent new players from exploring more dangerous areas.

You are right about people in high-sec corps warning people about low-sec but this I don't think would be enough to put of a new player from exploring if they had jump clones available at a much earlier stage of the game.
Jax Bederen
Dark Horse RM
#59 - 2012-09-11 11:47:01 UTC
Maybe it's just me, but this thread is giving me the chuckles literally. It's like watching Somali pirates doing a tv commercial, hey people come now, it's great out here man, it's a huge ocean, we have fish! Just look at our small dinghy boats, nothing could ever happen to yooouuu. Wait...we will blow up you boat and then buy you a new one! yes! just show up, it's just lonely here having no one to shot at. Bang bang.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2012-09-11 11:52:24 UTC
Sabrina Solette wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Sabrina Solette wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
We need to force carebears away from noobs. These decadent, spoiled, diaper wearing sissies shouldn't ruin
the game for people who don't even know how it works ...



I don't even think it's the community that ruins the experience for new players, it's the game mechanics.

New player starts they have limited isk and trained skills, so they set out to train up skills as quickly as they can which means investing their limited resources (isk) in learning implants. As soon as they've got those implants they're trapped in high-sec as they can't afford to lose them and they don't have access to jump clones because it takes time to get 8.0 standing with a corp.

I know that some corps offer services for jump clones but they would have to leave the starter corp which they can't get back to which is not good for a new player.

Make an alt, sit in startercorp for a while, observe yourself.
The most influence is to be had in the early days, in startercorps.
Dare and try talking about lowsec. ^_^

Drop starter corp, make your own, join noobcorp.
Dare talking about lowsec.

You do the mistake most people do. Blame a game about how people make choices, instead of blaming the people
for their choices and trying to correct them.


edit: That was written in a haste. You *may* be partly right about the implants, although i thought they get them with
tutorial missions ? I still haven't run the new ones ...




Most new people aim for +3 implants because although expensive for a new player they're achieveable given sometime to gain the isk and of course only need lvl 1 in cybernetics. It's this coupled with no access to jump clones early on that tends to prevent new players from exploring more dangerous areas.

You are right about people in high-sec corps warning people about low-sec but this I don't think would be enough to put of a new player from exploring if they had jump clones available at a much earlier stage of the game.

Ah, i understand now ... and agree. A way for people to save their implants could help ...

But i still believe that, if we want more people in lowsec, we simply have to grab the noobs. Teach them how to survive,
teach them how to make money, teach them the fun of killing things and prevent them from getting spoiled diaper-shitters.

In the end, there's only so much that can be done via a change of game mechanics, compared to showing noobs
that it's not even half as bad as the diaper-shitters claim it to be.