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Skilling up faster
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Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#1 - 2012-09-08 08:33:46 UTC
Yes yes it's bad it's bad it's bad cause someone will find a way to exploit everything.

Anyhow

So I'm proposing that CCP lets us train skills faster. (yes yes I have the implants and over 100mil sp)

But realisticly it's stupid how long it takes training time to train something for your self. It's bad from the point of new players who want to try the game and for old players who want to train something else for a while and knowing it's going to be a new 1 year skill plan until you get into a new fancy ship with fitting and all.

Most likely someone has posted this but still lets post again and wait for the link to the other threat Twisted

What I would like to see is that you get some kind of reward (SP wise, not the experience that comes from it and you get better at something by knowing how to do it) from playing the game.

Mayby the +7 implants or bigger that where on the list a while back.

Half the training times.

Anything... just do something cause training is taking forever.

And bohoo if people make "fast alts" to do something specialized. They will do it anyways.


After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#2 - 2012-09-08 09:07:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
Well, I'm far far away from 100m SP with any of my chars. Will take 3-4 years to get there.

Still I never felt any lack of SP as a new player. Lots of stuff to do in my play time.

And to be honest: I like this laid back skill system very much.

I remember back in my old wow days, when my progress raiding guild was waiting for me to level up while rl was really busy. I certainly don't want that kind of pressure again in a game.

And it is going to happen, if you can grind SP. Sooner or later a FC will start to ask why you still don't have level 5 of that skill he thinks you need. And that ofc it is your fault, if something bad happens.

Thanks, no.

Remove standings and insurance.
Alec Enderas
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#3 - 2012-09-08 10:20:13 UTC
So you have 100 Mil SP and still are inpatient and apparently cant have fun with the ships you can already fly. (damn, that must be all subcaps already....)
The system is fine in my opinion. Some skills are meant to take longer, what would be the point to skill fully into a ship in a day or two, would that feel rewarding to you ? I pretty much doubt it.

I can offer you 2 solutions - quit and contract all (i mean all, every f*ing bullet) to me b4 that.
Now the real one - like flying something specific - swap characters, there is a bazaar for this, isk can be grinded....may work well for you.

What could be done by CCP is letting you forget skills and lets say give you back at least 50% of the skillpoints, that you can assign freely.

Dont forget the contract!

I am not old, just bitter.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#4 - 2012-09-08 10:29:48 UTC
No.

Instant gratification is bad and must be smacked upside the head where ever it is found!
Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#5 - 2012-09-08 10:52:27 UTC
Paikis, realy well argued... good for you.

But to the subject. I wasn't saying the skill training needs to be instant and of course it would suck to get all at once cause then the game would lack something. I just wish for something.... special and I do like the idea that you get some extra when you do stuff.

And no your not getting my bullets/mizzilez cause my golem needs them Twisted

And what comes for buying alts that other people have trained... meh it just doesn't feel like you have done it. It just feels like some nerd wants your isks. I like my isks so I'll train my own skills :P

The system what we have that some skills take longer to train up is good but like 60 days? thats 2 months, what the point in that? And you can't have anything else on the side. Just that, nothing else. So thats why.... mayby just a small fraction to SP when you use the skills you have and get some extra for it.

But thats how I feel and I also do know countless of people that wont even start eve cause they know they need to train up multiple months to get something what they would like to see them selfs in. And flying a ship is alot different than flying an effective ship.

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#6 - 2012-09-08 21:17:40 UTC
The History of Faster Training in EVE:
  • Low level learning skills added
  • Implants +1/2/3 easy to get
  • High level learning skills added
  • LP store makes +4/5 implants accessible
  • Attribute remaps
  • (+3 35 day booster for new players created)
  • Learning skills removed (maxed out characters slightly nerfed)
  • Remaps given out as gifts
  • Bonus remap revamp makes biannual remaps possible

New accounts have changed a lot too:
  • Original new characters started off with more skills and almost 1mil SP
  • Later they were cut way down, but train twice as fast until they hit 1mil SP
  • With learning skills removed, they now train at a normal pace.
  • They currently start with two remaps

Adding ways to train faster, by player action or by game mechanic, is nothing new to EVE.
In fact, adding ways to train faster would fit right in to the progression of EVE.


How to train faster is the question. I have made various suggestions in different threads. Here is one example.
Obsidian wrote:
Faster training, now that I can get behind. We already have a booster that can accelerate attributes for new players. I would like to see boosters that can do that for older characters, one attribute type per booster. The drawback can be a chance at hurting another attribute, harder to raise standings, etc.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#7 - 2012-09-08 23:40:31 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
So I'm proposing that CCP lets us train skills faster. (yes yes I have the implants and over 100mil sp)

But realisticly it's stupid how long it takes training time to train something for your self. It's bad from the point of new players who want to try the game and for old players who want to train something else for a while and knowing it's going to be a new 1 year skill plan until you get into a new fancy ship with fitting and all.

Most likely someone has posted this but still lets post again and wait for the link to the other threat Twisted

What I would like to see is that you get some kind of reward (SP wise, not the experience that comes from it and you get better at something by knowing how to do it) from playing the game.

Mayby the +7 implants or bigger that where on the list a while back.

Half the training times.

Anything... just do something cause training is taking forever.

And bohoo if people make "fast alts" to do something specialized. They will do it anyways.


Normally I don't mind linking to old threads arguing about old, stupid ideas, but this level of lazy (and stupid) is getting to me.

It's a bad idea. Training takes time. Training has consequences. If you don't like it, you can buy a character. If you don't want to do that either, there are many other games that might be more suited to your needs.
Josef Djugashvilis
#8 - 2012-09-09 07:39:54 UTC
I have just over 21 million skill points.

But rather than complain about it, I make the most of/enjoy the skills I have, and look forward to the many new aspects of Eve I will be able to engage in with more skill points.

Half the fun on Eve is planning for, and looking forward to being able to do 'new stuff'

This is not a signature.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#9 - 2012-09-09 13:50:39 UTC
Obsidiana wrote:
The History of Faster Training in EVE:
New accounts have changed a lot too:
  • Original new characters started off with more skills and almost 1mil SP



Not quite. That was after the first change to character creation.

Originally you got attributes and skills according to choices you made while creating your character. You chose your race, ancestry and education and at each step you got a bunch of skills and attribute points. You also got five attribute points to distribute relatively freely (IIRC only limit was max 3 points to one attribute).

At the time it was possible to get about 300K skill points with certain choices. It was possible to maximise (again IIRC) the gunnery skill.

If you google deeply enough I think you can still find a web page or two that simulates the first eve character creation process.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-09-09 14:28:56 UTC
one of the beauties of EVE is that you do not need to grind XP to level up. let's keep it that way.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#11 - 2012-09-10 07:55:08 UTC
Zhilia Mann see how other actualy say something usefull while you just claim everything to be stupid. So how about you just jump into a well and stay there and be quiet.

Daniel Plain wrote:
one of the beauties of EVE is that you do not need to grind XP to level up. let's keep it that way.


And I totaly totaly agree with point that eve should stay in a way that you don't have to grind xp but there should be something extra also or a alternative way to get SP in addition.

I'm not proposing that we could make god like chars from the start, I know how remaps work and how to do all this. But still the fact that you need to train for lets say 50-60 days for outpost construction 5 to get a upgrade into space is somehow not apealing. And lets also remember that training all skills to level 5 takes somewhat 35 years and CCP is makins new skill all the time which add that number and also it effects your skill plans when you see something like "ooh orbital bombardment.... I want to shoot my citadel topedoes on the planet and kill all dust players".

So the game evelves quite abit and adds new content but the time to get new and old content to your use takes more and more time.

And stop telling that you can buy characters or you can buy another account. I have enough already and not everyone can do that so keep that in mind.

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm
Kaildoth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-09-10 13:45:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaildoth
Short answer: No.

Long answer:
The majority of skills dont have to be trained at level 5. You dont have to train your Recon ship skill at 5, nor your gun support skills at 5. You dont even need to train tech 2 guns, you can use meta 4. And certainly almost no skill needs to be at level 5 so you can have fun.

But some players (and i think most that play eve) are patient and want to wait for that level 5 skill and they make a plan, from the majority of the skills and just because they take a lot of time to train all of them at 5, you have to choose which ones you want. So every player makes his choice and thats what distinguishes everyone. Every eve player is more or less specialized according to what skills they choose.
If everything was easy to train then everyone would run around with max skills. Really.... whats the fun in that? Skills would have no point. Skills requirements would also have no point.
Having to train these skills for a long time and finally when you finish it to feel a little more special and a little more stronger and from time to time use that new ship or that new module is part of what makes this game fun.
Airto TLA
Acorn's Wonder Bars
#13 - 2012-09-10 15:04:20 UTC
I sort of stand in the middle on this one with a 65+ mil sp main and a 45 mil sp alt , I can see where the train over time has advantages, and the grind for xp method definitetly bites, but...

At some point the game designers will have to take into consideration the massive numbers of alts out there with with 60+ mil sp, too many new guys come in and look at that and think 2.5 -3 years to get there omg no way I quit, or buy a toon.

Alot of people say, you do not need 5 in everything since it is just 5 percent, but those 5 percents add up and they add up quickly. THe 100 mil sp alt may not look much better than the 20 mil focused alt at assault frigs, but odds say somewhere he has a few 5 percent here and there and if he does not he can fly the hard counter to the 20 mil guy. Basically we have a game of rock, paper, scissors and new guys need to choose on of the three and focus on it old guys can choose whetever one they want.

Again a better pilot behind the keyboard can negate alot, but equal skills the 100 mil sp guy walks away from minor derps and the 20 mil guy dies if they both fly flawlessly.

I am not sure what the answer is, but I think a yealy gift of remaps is a good start and maybe a anversery gift to players of less than a certain playing length of unassigned sp (around a million) would help (these are especially nice for the newbs, since they can pick up that annoying missed Int/mem skill, while they are max concentrated on perc/will).
Kaildoth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-09-10 17:37:40 UTC
EvE has lasted 10 years and keeps growing just because it has this system among other things.
I dont understand why new players should come in here and try to change the system just because they are jealous of high sp players.
Btw those little +5 percents do NOT add up quickly, just because it takes so much time to train them all to 5.

CCP removed learning skills, they gave accelerated train for new players, they gave remaps, then they gave bonus remaps.
And you want more? You want free sp? what you gonna ask next? free 50m sp characters for every new player?... Dont you think you are asking for way too much.

Skills are fine.
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#15 - 2012-09-10 19:36:06 UTC
> 100m sp but still not trained Trolling to at least level 1? shame on you...
Shayla Sh'inlux
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-09-10 21:51:08 UTC
If you have 100m skillpoints and are waiting for skills to complete to enjoy yourself then maybe it's time to quit playing?

If anything, I'd like to see learning implants removed altogether (and increase attributes again for all I care) so people don't feel obliged to fly around with 300mil worth of +5 implants all the time just to train faster, shying PvP and 0.0 in the process in fear of getting podded.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#17 - 2012-09-10 22:06:59 UTC
Skill training is faster and more versatile than ever, and making it faster doesn't particularly solve any kind of problem.

It's meant to be slow so your decisions matter and so that there will be (severe) gaps in your skill set that other characters need to fill. Active skill training is a horrid idea in every way imaginable and +7s immediately ring the Malcanis'-law bell.

So no thanks.
Michael Orlais
Cornucopia Ltd.
#18 - 2012-09-11 00:48:43 UTC
I am a very new player to EVE. About 23 days, 1.25 mil SP on this character, though I did miss 2 or 3 days of training somewhere in there. Because I was interested in drones skills, I started up a 90 day EVEMon plan where I would train nothing but drones with a memory 27/perception 21 remap (base).

Now I do regret doing this remap because I would have preferred to go with Perception/Willpower. But I will wait patiently. Because it feels really good to me when a new skill level dings. Yes, currently when a skill goes up, you did not put in any effort to gain that skill, but compare that to some Asian Grinder MMO where you spend all your time and effort grinding up to the next level. At first it's fun, but then it just gets tedious...and more tedious....and even more tedious. Until the point where when you level up, all that you're thinking is "Wow, now I can finally go to sleep..."

EVE's system is hard. It's painful to wait sometimes. I have to wait 17d 10h to get to drone interfacing V. And 17 more days to get heavy drones V. 17 more for Sentries V. And so on. It's painful but extremely satisfactory when you finally make it through to the end. Just like real life. It's satisfactory to log in every day after work/school or whatever and see that you're one step closer to your goals.

So what is the point of my nooby post? I may be new to EVE but I am not new to MMOs. And I have to say that any system where you can grind up in skills or levels promotes powergaming and staying up 24/7 with your bot to maximize your exp/hour. I don't want EVE to turn into that type of game.

I like being rewarded for patience and just sticking with something. I like that the current system rewards careful skill planning to get where you need to be, and diligence, as opposed to being an insomniac/bot farmer. Just my 2 ISK.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#19 - 2012-09-11 07:55:27 UTC
Michael Orlais wrote:
Because I was interested in drones skills, I started up a 90 day EVEMon plan where I would train nothing but drones with a memory 27/perception 21 remap (base).

Now I do regret doing this remap because I would have preferred to go with Perception/Willpower.


Take a look at the Industry category, it has memory as a primary attribute too. For all Tech 1 production you only need to train Industry, Production efficiency, Mass production and (possibly) Advanced mass production. After those skills you possibly never need to train memory primary skills again.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-09-11 08:34:51 UTC
No.

Possibly they could make training time scale with total SP of the character i suppose, but leaving the fastest speed as is currently.
(if nothing else, the vet tears would be ultra awesome :P )

There is no Bob.

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