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What is it about Serpentis loot...
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Shou Kaukonen
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-09-09 07:59:15 UTC
That people seem to dislike so much? I can't find anything specific on the subject when scouring the forums - just lots of people who seem to think running Serpentis sites is a waste of time compared to Guristas or Angels. Most of my exploration experience comes from Sansha lowsec, so I have no idea about any of the more 'popular' pirate factions to grind against.

So, what's so bad about Serpentis as targets for pve activity? Or is the idea that they are bad just a matter of opinion? Thanks for your input.
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#2 - 2012-09-09 08:23:18 UTC
Loot value :

Guristas > Angel > Serpentis > Blood = Sansha

Shou Kaukonen wrote:

So, what's so bad about Serpentis as targets for pve activity?


There is nothing bad about it. It's just not as attractive as Guristas and Angel. On top of that Seprentis space lacks a proper DED6 site ( This also applies to Angel space but the Angel loot is generally more valuable so it is still better ).
The one we get is MUCH harder and longer ( and quite often escalates to null ) than normal DED6s found in Guristas/Sansha/Blood space.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#3 - 2012-09-09 09:08:41 UTC
Tengu is the answer, creating demand. People want to pimp them fit deadspace shield modules for both PVP and PVE, and Serps don't drop those.

This also means that pimping armor ships is over twice as cheap :)



.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#4 - 2012-09-09 09:48:08 UTC
Shou Kaukonen wrote:
So, what's so bad about Serpentis as targets for pve activity?


Guristas and Angels drop shield modules, which are popular for shiny PvE ships.

Armor modules ... not so much.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-09-09 12:22:11 UTC
just compare high end shield boosters and hardeners with their armor counterparts. the a-type small boosters for example are 10x the value of small armor reps.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Zaraz Zaraz
Zontik Paraphernalia Inc
#6 - 2012-09-10 00:11:20 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
just compare high end shield boosters and hardeners with their armor counterparts. the a-type small boosters for example are 10x the value of small armor reps.


People use a-type small boosters on mission tengus. Anyone using an a-type small repper on a pve proteus or legion would need their heads examined (for defects).
Dennis Gregs
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-09-10 00:19:24 UTC
Serpentis loot is by no means bad, especially if you fly ships that might use something out of the loot you're getting. It's the salvage that is horrendous. In comparison, Angels have less loot overall in their missions (m³ wise) but their salvage is significantly better.
Yatama Kautsuo
Tencus
#8 - 2012-09-10 07:53:27 UTC
do you guys really think serpentis loot is better than sansha? as far as i can tell sansha loot = angel. at least they salvage for the same expensive stuff.

best for loot is mercenary and eom though... gone berserk how i love thee... 30 million loot.
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-09-10 09:05:51 UTC
Also, most of the armor deadspace/faction mods (Blood, Sansha & Serpentis) have the same stats (making them effectively duplicate modules in all but name). Meanwhile, the shield ones (Gurista, Angel) differ in HP recovered vs cap usage.

Like everyone else already mentioned, shield modules have high demand (Tengus, PvE, etc etc) compared to armor modules.

So (relatively), armor mods = high supply + low demand = low price
Shield mods = low supply + high demand = high price
TheOneEsp
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-09-10 09:56:48 UTC
While Guristas mods are the most valuable you need to take into account competition. There is a ridiculous number of explorers in Guristas space compared to Serpentis so consider if 300mil every 3 hours is better than 150 every hour.
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#11 - 2012-09-10 10:19:24 UTC
Yatama Kautsuo wrote:
do you guys really think serpentis loot is better than sansha? as far as i can tell sansha loot = angel. at least they salvage for the same expensive stuff.

best for loot is mercenary and eom though... gone berserk how i love thee... 30 million loot.


This talk is about faction and deadspace loot from exploration sites, not missions.
Miccet
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
#12 - 2012-09-10 11:08:57 UTC
Serpentis loot is worse than Sansha / Blood imo. At least in low sec where I roam around. The 4/10 plexes have a tendency to drop medium remote armor reppers which is worth < 10m a piece. Sansha do drop them as well, but blood doesn't (higher chance of something more valuable dropping). Also, shadow Serpentis EANM has bonus to CPU usage, not as good resists as Sansha / Blood (20 vs 22.5) and thus worth much less (<15m I think). Further, the medium repper is doing 320/160, while Sansha / Blood does 380/180.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#13 - 2012-09-10 15:18:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
Miccet wrote:
Serpentis loot is worse than Sansha / Blood imo. At least in low sec where I roam around. The 4/10 plexes have a tendency to drop medium remote armor reppers which is worth < 10m a piece. Sansha do drop them as well, but blood doesn't (higher chance of something more valuable dropping). Also, shadow Serpentis EANM has bonus to CPU usage, not as good resists as Sansha / Blood (20 vs 22.5) and thus worth much less (<15m I think). Further, the medium repper is doing 320/160, while Sansha / Blood does 380/180.


Eh. It's not that simple.

Serpentis get a MRAR, AB, and MWD, and have cap efficient MARs that fetch a bit less on market. These are at least partially compensated for by the prop mods.

Sansha get MRAR and ETA. The Sansha MRAR repairs more but at lower range.

Blood Raiders get ETA and Nos. The Blood ETA transfers more but at lower range. Medium deadspace nos are not exactly the hottest item out there, but they do sell, partially making up for the utter lack of market for deadsapce ETAs (seriously, I'll trade you my stack of ETAs for MRARs at a 2:1 ratio any day and twice on Sundays).

Additionally, you have the complication that while BR and Sansha have true 6/10s, Serpentis don't. This drives considerable scarcity of Corelum A-types. On the other hand, the Blood Minor Annex is ridiculous, so there's that.

And in any case, all three do indeed lose out to Guristas and Angels and their shield mods. I'm still annoyed that they decided to put invulns on the cruiser band; it's not like A-type MSBs weren't enough to start with.
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#14 - 2012-09-10 18:03:03 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:

Eh. It's not that simple.

Serpentis get a MRAR, AB, and MWD, and have cap efficient MARs that fetch a bit less on market. These are at least partially compensated for by the prop mods.

Sansha get MRAR and ETA. The Sansha MRAR repairs more but at lower range.

Blood Raiders get ETA and Nos. The Blood ETA transfers more but at lower range. Medium deadspace nos are not exactly the hottest item out there, but they do sell, partially making up for the utter lack of market for deadsapce ETAs (seriously, I'll trade you my stack of ETAs for MRARs at a 2:1 ration any day and twice on Sundays).


^ this ^

Zhilia Mann wrote:

Additionally, you have the complication that while BR and Sansha have true 6/10s, Serpentis don't. This drives considerably scarcity of Corelum A-types. On the other hand, the Blood Minor Annex is ridiculous, so there's that.


I think that is actually one of the biggest problems with guristas lowsec. You get all types of sites and they are extremely easy to do ( especially in Tengu ).
DED6 is just a laugh. Possible 3bil in loot for 15 - 20 minutes work?
That's just excessive and not beause of isk but because of the time/effort this site takes.

At least Angel space is not one of Tengu's playgrounds. It's not that good there and you need to use other ships, which are not as effective as Tengu is in Guristas space.

I'm not really that concerned with the isk value of the loot. I'm more concerned with the balance in terms of content.
I say :
- Make GTRC harder by adding 3 webbing towers and a proper battleship boss not some silly structure, which dies after few volleys.
- Make BMA easier, it's way too hard for a lowsec site
- Add proper DED6 to Serp/Angel space ( just move those battleship bosses to the first site, which is already harder and longer than normal DED6s and includes heavy tackling and neuting - things that you don't see in sites, which should pose as an equivalent ).
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#15 - 2012-09-10 18:22:33 UTC
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
I say :
- Make GTRC harder by adding 3 webbing towers and a proper battleship boss not some silly structure, which dies after few volleys.
- Make BMA easier, it's way too hard for a lowsec site
- Add proper DED6 to Serp/Angel space ( just move those battleship bosses to the first site, which is already harder and longer than normal DED6s and includes heavy tackling and neuting - things that you don't see in sites, which should pose as an equivalent ).


Agreed on all counts. As nice as it would be to have pseudo 6/10s and real 6/10s for all factions, I'd rather fill out the real ones than sit with the status quo.
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-09-11 05:29:48 UTC
Don't forget Serpentis faction loot gets Tracking Computers, SeBos and Mag Field Stabs. And I'd take Snake implants over Talismans any day.