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The X'th thread about low sec
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Methesda
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2012-09-10 00:10:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Methesda
Sabrina Solette wrote:

Camping gates or camping stations, amount to the same thing. They're both fixed objects where before warp to 0 it was easy to kill targets. Targets actually managing to get away sounds like a good thing to me, makes you work a bit for the kills.


THAT is why people think you are a troll.

Camping is/was part of low sec. You may not like it but it doesn't make it less valid... you say that low-sec pirates have to 'work a bit' for the kills, but please explain exactly what they should do to get them?

Right now, there is only one method for catching them, and that's catching slow-to-align ships... that isn't work, that's a chance based on whoever is coming through the gate. NOTHING a pirate can do can help that, since it's basically binary; sensor-boosters are a non-option because of the need to tank sentry guns.

The idea of allowing interdictor bubbles to be useable is the best idea I've read in this thread, but the increases in risk needs to be balanced with a reason to be in low-sec.

Eve is about the journey.  If you are so focused on making money, that you insist on having the tools to make it be made as autonomous and easy as possible, then you are never going to have as much fun as I will.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#82 - 2012-09-10 05:33:50 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Methesda wrote:

Camping is/was part of low sec.


Then dont complain that low sec is empty and players from hisec dont want to go there.

Quote:
you say that low-sec pirates have to 'work a bit' for the kills, but please explain exactly what they should do to get them?


hunting them for example? You know, combat scaners, asteroid belt searching etc.. Be more creative for god sake. Hisecer cannot be more creative as there are already gatecamps with instalocking ships, that even a shuttle cannot pass. Removing gatecamps in lowsec will solve this problem.

Quote:
Right now, there is only one method for catching them, and that's catching slow-to-align ships...


Fail PvPer maybe?

Quote:
NOTHING a pirate can do can help that, since it's basically binary; sensor-boosters are a non-option because of the need to tank sentry guns.


We can apply to PvEr too. If he wants to fly in low sec, he needs fast aligning ship with low signature, cloaky maybe, superior dps for l4 and l5 and superior tank. We all know that dream ships are not part of eve. Also there are armor ships, that solve your problem with tank and SEBO. Im just surprised, that hisec dweller like me need to remind this to you.

Quote:
The idea of allowing interdictor bubbles to be useable is the best idea I've read in this thread,


No. That will be last nail to lowsec coffin. Sorry dude, but you are the one of those "Hardcore PvPers" who camp gates 23/7 and complaining that low sec is empty.

"but the increases in risk needs to be balanced with a reason to be in low-sec"

Aggain. This is not just about buffing rewards in lowsec (or nerfing hisec). You can have 1B Rats in belt and you wont see any hisecer in low. You need to let them enter the lowsec first. Removing gatecamps will solve this problem. Gatecamps shoul be only a part of Null, so alliances can defend their teritories. Lowsec is still part of an empire and should have secure gates and stations at least. Right now low sec is less secure than null.

And above all. Try to ask hisecers first what will coerce them to enter low sec. Whining that low sec have low population while sitting on gatecamp at the same time is dull.

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Yolanta Geezenstack
GWA Corp
#83 - 2012-09-10 07:29:15 UTC
I am too newbish to add anything to the solution of the "problem" - but I must admit I even fail to see the problem.

I am spending most of my time in low-sec, and I find it pretty busy - very seldom I am the only one in a sector, and when I start to rat or even mine there, it doesn't take long until someone enters the sector, finds me in the belt and I have to run.

In many sectors there are often >10 people - isn't that "busy"? Or how many people do you need in a sector to call it "busy"?
Planktal
Kenshao Industries
#84 - 2012-09-10 08:37:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Planktal
To all the hardcore PvPers who live in lowsec doing gatecamps 23.7, shooting anything that moves, do you what to know why lowsec is the desert it is, why it sucks, all you have to do is look in a mirror.

Would you go to an area that you knew would mean instant death as soon as you entered it or soon after? Of course you wouldn't, who would? Then why do you expect others to?

The general consensus is that lowsec is more risky than nullsec.
Until that is addressed, lowsec will continue to be the desert it is.

No use holding a bigger carrot in front of the rabbit if it knows trying to eat the carrot will get it killed.

Here sanity, nice sanity.....THWOOK Got the bastard
Chimpy B
The Philosophy Of Two
#85 - 2012-09-10 08:50:55 UTC
Planktal wrote:
No use holding a bigger carrot in front of the rabbit if it knows trying to eat the carrot will get it killed.

+1
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#86 - 2012-09-10 09:01:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Zloco Crendraven
I just dont understand CCP. When they nerfed incursions, why the hell they did it to the lowsec ones. Always speaking that lolsec has troubles, should be buffed and suddenly they nerf the incurions for the low sec too.

Since i joined Balex i did like 5-6 incurions. There was a community built around them. In every single one there were some brawls, camping and fights about who ll get to farm the sites, or who ll get the Uroborus kill. Was really fun and none could just stay there and farm em 24/7. Of those 6 i did, we were able to get 3 Uroborus kills and other 3 were some Highsec carebares, nullsec alliances or Goon incursion community. And above all, there was finally a natural cyno jammer which allowed best pvp moments in my EVE career which for sure would get ruined with some hotdrops.

We tried it after these debuffs and buffs, but still aint worth the trouble. No community to chase around and isk is not that great.

Why taking out content from lowsec, it is just beyond any logic.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Edhelbrien
Borrage Lane Associates
#87 - 2012-09-10 09:18:05 UTC
I did some solo roams in low sec yesterday. Flipped to a naked clone, jumped into a tier 1 fit Incursus fully expecting to get popped and struggled to find anything wanting to shoot back at me apart from the usual belt rats. Ok it was fun to break though a gate camp a couple of times but apart from that it was quite dull.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#88 - 2012-09-10 10:16:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
I like low sec the way it is now. Not very crowded, plenty of room for experimenting, even nice exploration options again because its not very crowded. Basically low-sec is good for the loner and casual type and i hope it stays this way. If low-sec was the only place to mine zydrine or whatnot it would quickly become inhabited by large organisations going out of their way to force everyone else out

o/
Gibbah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#89 - 2012-09-10 14:31:06 UTC
I started playing Eve in 2005 and been away and back again in periodes since then. Now Im back again (quit 2010) and this issue has been up on the table several times along the way since I started in 2005. I doubt there will be a major change in an forseeable future.
My take on the solution is to make lowsec more lucrative. Don't force highsec dwellers to lowsec, just provide more incentives to go there then some of them probably will in time.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#90 - 2012-09-10 15:02:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Gibbah wrote:
I started playing Eve in 2005 and been away and back again in periodes since then. Now Im back again (quit 2010) and this issue has been up on the table several times along the way since I started in 2005. I doubt there will be a major change in an forseeable future.
My take on the solution is to make lowsec more lucrative. Don't force highsec dwellers to lowsec, just provide more incentives to go there then some of them probably will in time.



Again, you missed a lot of stuff since your return, the problem is not the amount of rewards there because they're already huge, the problem is that gates are too easily camped, they have close to any drawback being there except a couple shots making them warp off well after they killled everything on grid.
There a couple bad not knowing how but the majority has already at least one alt kissing the poss providing huge boosts and will insta target/kill even a shuttle or a pod.
Gate guns should make a lot more dmg, have more of them and then see what happens to low sec activity, if it increases then it's a good choice but listening to to low sec dewlers it only leads to what it is for years and not a single change done has changed it except making them cry and moan for more.

Time for CCP to take the problem differently and make gate camping impossible, then compare activity numbers 6 months later and adjust.

brb
Corriel
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#91 - 2012-09-10 17:00:14 UTC
Low-sec needs more traffic which I believe could be greatly boosted with small tweeks. I propose one of these two ideas to get increased traffic.

a) Locked acceleration gates into missions this stops the "gank me " aspect of low-sec missions. Make acceleration gates shut down if the Gate is scrammed, this would make warping in and out of missions very dangerous due to a new form of "gate camp". You can still be caught at gates but mission could be completed by competent pilots.

OR

b) Change agro in missions to "last ship on grid". A ganker can still warp into mission but knows he will get agro of entire room as well as agro from his target. Ganking is still possible but not the sure thing that todays mechanics create.

These changes seem simple and an easy way to create more targets but not easy targets.

Corriel
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#92 - 2012-09-11 06:06:20 UTC
Corriel wrote:
Low-sec needs more traffic which I believe could be greatly boosted with small tweeks. I propose one of these two ideas to get increased traffic.

a) Locked acceleration gates into missions this stops the "gank me " aspect of low-sec missions. Make acceleration gates shut down if the Gate is scrammed, this would make warping in and out of missions very dangerous due to a new form of "gate camp". You can still be caught at gates but mission could be completed by competent pilots.

OR

b) Change agro in missions to "last ship on grid". A ganker can still warp into mission but knows he will get agro of entire room as well as agro from his target. Ganking is still possible but not the sure thing that todays mechanics create.

These changes seem simple and an easy way to create more targets but not easy targets.

Corriel


Decent Ideas, how ever what are the unforeseen consequences of this changes?

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#93 - 2012-09-11 06:39:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
James 315 wrote:
My ideas for improving lowsec would be:

1. Give a boost to lowsec ore/rats while giving a nerf to highsec ore/rats.
2. Remove sec status penalty for all actions occurring in lowsec.


1. I'm pretty sure that my visits to lowsec have included the observance of ore and such that are unheard of in highsec, aside from Kernite being available in the Amarr regions. Pretty sure the Trit roids there are mountainous too, but that may be Null I recall. Haven't been to a lot of belts lately.

You couldn't possibly nerf highsec rats; they're already worthless.

2. To some extent I think you're possibly a little right on this one. Maybe not all actions, but I'm not really up on changes to Crimewatch since the fanfest videos. I'm not sure where I'd leave lowsec, except that I think it would be appropriate to just call a hare a hare and be done with it.

I would:

1. Allow Bubbles in 1.0 and 2.0 systems.

2. Reduce the effect of Crimewatch in a scalable fashion until it reached 0 in 1.0 systems.

3. Remove Gate Guns in 1.0 and 2.0 systems and only give them the ability to fire on direct aggression in 3.0 systems. In 4.0 systems they would function essentially as normal.

4. Remove "you are about to enter Lowsec; do you wish to proceed?" warnings and replace with hazard indicators/colors on the gates.

5. Remove security status impact in 1.0 to 3.0 systems and reduce it for 4.0 systems.

6. idk, but I'm sure I could think of something else if I were sufficiently motivated. Donations will help; failing that, I'll take corpses.

Lol

*Sits back and expects a truckload of corpses*

j/k of course; I don't really want a truckload of corpses, but your guaranteed vote for me in the next CSM elections would be greatly appreciated. Smile

j/k ..I can't stop.. Lol
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#94 - 2012-09-11 06:55:37 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
James 315 wrote:
My ideas for improving lowsec would be:

1. Give a boost to lowsec ore/rats while giving a nerf to highsec ore/rats.
2. Remove sec status penalty for all actions occurring in lowsec.


1. I'm pretty sure that my visits to lowsec have included the observance of ore and such that are unheard of in highsec, aside from Kernite being available in the Amarr regions. Pretty sure the Trit roids there are mountainous too, but that may be Null I recall. Haven't been to a lot of belts lately.

You couldn't possibly nerf highsec rats; they're already worthless.

2. To some extent I think you're possibly a little right on this one. Maybe not all actions, but I'm not really up on changes to Crimewatch since the fanfest videos. I'm not sure where I'd leave lowsec, except that I think it would be appropriate to just call a hare a hare and be done with it.

I would:

1. Allow Bubbles in 1.0 and 2.0 systems.

2. Reduce the effect of Crimewatch in a scalable fashion until it reached 0 in 1.0 systems.

3. Remove Gate Guns in 1.0 and 2.0 systems and only give them the ability to fire on direct aggression in 3.0 systems. In 4.0 systems they would function essentially as normal.

4. Remove "you are about to enter Lowsec; do you wish to proceed?" warnings and replace with hazard indicators/colors on the gates.

5. Remove security status impact in 1.0 to 3.0 systems and reduce it for 4.0 systems.

6. idk, but I'm sure I could think of something else if I were sufficiently motivated. Donations will help; failing that, I'll take corpses.

Lol

*Sits back and expects a truckload of corpses*

j/k of course; I don't really want a truckload of corpses, but your guaranteed vote for me in the next CSM elections would be greatly appreciated. Smile

j/k ..I can't stop.. Lol

You also could put some ballons and Confetti Bombs at the gates?

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#95 - 2012-09-11 07:03:32 UTC
You've got no sense of humor.

I though about letting bombs in, but decided Null needs something.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Sabrina Solette
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2012-09-11 09:46:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabrina Solette
Methesda wrote:
Sabrina Solette wrote:

Camping gates or camping stations, amount to the same thing. They're both fixed objects where before warp to 0 it was easy to kill targets. Targets actually managing to get away sounds like a good thing to me, makes you work a bit for the kills.


THAT is why people think you are a troll.


Nope, I was not trolling, I generally have 3 modes, mode 1 serious, mode 2 sarcastic, mode 3 trolling. Mode 1 and 2 I use quite often mode 3 rarely and in mode 3 there would be no doubt about it. This post was mode 1 with possibly a hint of mode 2 creeping in.



Methesda wrote:


Camping is/was part of low sec. You may not like it but it doesn't make it less valid... you say that low-sec pirates have to 'work a bit' for the kills, but please explain exactly what they should do to get them?

Right now, there is only one method for catching them, and that's catching slow-to-align ships... that isn't work, that's a chance based on whoever is coming through the gate. NOTHING a pirate can do can help that, since it's basically binary; sensor-boosters are a non-option because of the need to tank sentry guns.

The idea of allowing interdictor bubbles to be useable is the best idea I've read in this thread, but the increases in risk needs to be balanced with a reason to be in low-sec.



Before warp to 0 how many single ships managed to get away from gate camps? You take the PvP to gate camps so hardly anyone bothers to go there which in turn means you have less targets to hunt in asteroid belts and complexes so you end up camping gates so the cycle continues. Gate campers are their own worst enemies.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#97 - 2012-09-11 10:45:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Muad 'dib
Chimpy B wrote:
Planktal wrote:
No use holding a bigger carrot in front of the rabbit if it knows trying to eat the carrot will get it killed.

+1


Maybe if the greedy high sec bear rabbit shared the golden carrot instead of munching it all to them selves, they might not be killed so easy.

High sec is a selfish solo zone where average to low income is tolerated by the hundreds of thousands of players.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Shidhe
The Babylon5 Consortuim
#98 - 2012-09-11 10:49:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Shidhe
If low sec was worth going to, people would go. That's what used to happen. Scouting before valuable loads, risking less valuable ones, because you knew the area. Unofficial residents discussion channels where the latest warnings were traded... It all works, you lose a few, but it is worth it.

The problem is the economics makes the losses not worth it - call it the Prom/Dyspro effect, call it the Nanoribbon effect - some bottleneck resources and too many virtually valueless resources. Resource chains too uniform, too little movement of materials required (see post a page back for detailed suggestions). Wealth becomes concentrated in big 0.0 alliances, many others opt for risk free level 4s, and there is little incentive for innovation, freelancing or piracy.

I am fed up of everyone focusing on camping - it is seriously not the problem! Gate camp whatever - I don't care - if it is worth my time and risk, I will get round it. (Most of the time at least Smile )
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2012-09-11 11:47:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
*shakeshead*

I don't understand why nobody sees the obvious.

Even IF gatecamping was somehow nerfed and more people would enter lowsec,
there'd still be pirates in lowsec hunting these people.

Now what would happen then ?

They'd start crying about the pirates shooting them and then *that's* the reason why nobody enters lowsec.

Nerfing gatecamping will not change anything !


The issue is the peoples attitude, not the game mechanics FFS.
(and i'd love to see the sentry changes CCP was talking about)
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#100 - 2012-09-11 11:53:18 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
*shakeshead*

I don't understand why nobody sees the obvious.

Even IF gatecamping was somehow nerfed and more people would enter lowsec,
there'd still be pirates in lowsec hunting these people.

Now what would happen then ?

They'd start crying about the pirates shooting them and then *that's* the reason why nobody enters lowsec.

Nerfing gatecamping will not change anything !


The issue is the peoples attitude, not the game mechanics FFS.
(and i'd love to see the sentry changes CCP was talking about)

This.

If, and only if (! gate camping would get nerfed beyond repair CCP would also have to nerf scanning in low sec because a handfull people can combatscan the whole system in a matter of seconds.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP