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In what ways do the other T3 cruisers beat the Tengu
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Drone Bei
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-09-10 04:36:50 UTC
In what ways or situations do the other T3 cruisers beat the Tengu? I keep seeing all sorts of discussions where people suggest using the Tengu instead of a Legion or Proteus. As I understand, the Proteus is the best at solo cloaky PvP, but that's all I know that can beat the Tengu at something.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#2 - 2012-09-10 04:56:16 UTC
In PVP

.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#3 - 2012-09-10 05:26:13 UTC
The Legion is pretty fantastic at Orca camping.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Veryez
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#4 - 2012-09-10 06:10:25 UTC
The legion also can be setup as a 'super pilgrim', I know a few people who swear by them.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#5 - 2012-09-10 06:29:26 UTC
Veryez wrote:
The legion also can be setup as a 'super pilgrim', I know a few people who swear by them.


They're a great Bhaalgorn replacement in WHs that won't let BS's in.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#6 - 2012-09-10 06:42:08 UTC
Veryez wrote:
The legion also can be setup as a 'super pilgrim', I know a few people who swear by them.


Now this got my attention. I may have to look into that, I love that Pilgrim. ;)

There any threads discussing the fit? I never heard of this fit before now.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-09-10 07:56:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
webs, tank, raw dps, lock speed, neuting, point range, drones, speed, agility, non-gayness.

i probably missed a few things, was just a quick list.


tl;dr: usefulness in eve is situational.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Alexa Coates
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-09-10 18:52:55 UTC
Every t3 is good at what it is, anyone who tells you otherwise is stupid.

That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#9 - 2012-09-10 18:55:05 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
Veryez wrote:
The legion also can be setup as a 'super pilgrim', I know a few people who swear by them.


Now this got my attention. I may have to look into that, I love that Pilgrim. ;)

There any threads discussing the fit? I never heard of this fit before now.


I was discussing this with Valleria Darkmoon last night and it appears that the idea originated on SHC and has been mentioned a few times in R&K videos. Apparently it has ~350K EHP, the neut, and drone subsystems. It's entire job is to neut the **** out of whatever is nearby and is supported by Guardians. I can't imagine it being easy to shake with 350k EHP, fantastic resists, and a cruiser sig radius.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#10 - 2012-09-10 20:40:41 UTC
I'm gonna go ahead and speak up for Lokis, dem sexy Dual Web Armour Lokis.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#11 - 2012-09-10 20:58:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Zyella Stormborn
Liang Nuren wrote:
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
Veryez wrote:
The legion also can be setup as a 'super pilgrim', I know a few people who swear by them.


Now this got my attention. I may have to look into that, I love that Pilgrim. ;)

There any threads discussing the fit? I never heard of this fit before now.


I was discussing this with Valleria Darkmoon last night and it appears that the idea originated on SHC and has been mentioned a few times in R&K videos. Apparently it has ~350K EHP, the neut, and drone subsystems. It's entire job is to neut the **** out of whatever is nearby and is supported by Guardians. I can't imagine it being easy to shake with 350k EHP, fantastic resists, and a cruiser sig radius.

-Liang


.... yeah... like having a pit bull with a kevlar blanket on attached to your ankle.

I am going to have to search around for that build and tinker. Sounds like one fun as hell (well frustrating as hell to the victims) small gang build. Liking having a curse with a wanna-be damnation tank. ;)


Edit: Found http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/54095-Legion-Neut-Drone.html over at battle clinic, closest I could find to the described. The one in the link does not seem overly impressive however, I'll do some more searching and see what I can come up with.

May have to download the EFT planning tool and theory craft on this one a little, figure out a good fit to put on and try out on mine. This Pilgrim'ish monster tank tackler idea intrigues the hell out of me. ;)

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Pink Marshmellow
Caucasian Culture Club
#12 - 2012-09-10 21:23:35 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
Veryez wrote:
The legion also can be setup as a 'super pilgrim', I know a few people who swear by them.


Now this got my attention. I may have to look into that, I love that Pilgrim. ;)

There any threads discussing the fit? I never heard of this fit before now.


I was discussing this with Valleria Darkmoon last night and it appears that the idea originated on SHC and has been mentioned a few times in R&K videos. Apparently it has ~350K EHP, the neut, and drone subsystems. It's entire job is to neut the **** out of whatever is nearby and is supported by Guardians. I can't imagine it being easy to shake with 350k EHP, fantastic resists, and a cruiser sig radius.

-Liang


Show me this 350k EHP, Drone sub, Neut legion.
Windorian
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-09-10 23:26:53 UTC
Pro's / Con's of other T3's vs Tengu:

PVE:

Legion: Incredible for frigate removal. In high sec explorations, low sec WH's, or any site/mission with a vast amount of frigs and cruisers, i'll take a legion over a Tengu any day. We keep a Legion in fleet with our Tengu's every op, purely because even a max'd out Tengu can't kill frigs even 1/2 as fast as a scorch tot'ing legion.

Loki : Not much experience, but in fleets i've seen these make a world of difference when mixed with BS and capitals. A web'ing loki will turn your dread or nightmare from a simple DPS machine, into an all around DPS monster as the wrecking shots rack up. Made a huge difference in the use of our Rev vs sleeper BS.

Proteus: I cannot condone the use of the proteus for PVE. I've tried several tactics, blasters, rails, drones, nothing was even close to effective for the isk. You can get any n umber of gallente ships to perform better i PVE then a Proteus for a fraction of the cost.

PVP:

Legion: Nuets galore, a Legion can spell doom for un-suspecting victims. The scorch setup also makes hell for interceptors and other frigs thanks to the incredible tracking on the legion. I've seen some HAM setups that worked ok, but the limited range makes it very difficult.

Loki: PVP hunter, the Loki is a great PVP ship. Cloaky setups lack much DPS but their webs can hold a target in place from long range. A cloaky/probing loki can be killer for WH's though, and variable DMG types make it even more deadly.

Proteus: Of all T3's, this is my favored PVP vessel. It very easy to get a cloaky proteus up over 400 DPS while still maintaining over 100k EHP. If you go shiney, a Proteus can get astronomical EHP. If you want DPS, the proteus can do that.
Their is no ship that i've seen on D-scan and thought "Oh ****, i need to get safe" more then a proteus, except maybe a Bhaalghorn. It's the only cloaky T3 that can easily break 400 DPS, and the long scram/point is incredibly useful.
Lili Lu
#14 - 2012-09-11 00:08:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
The Tengu's advantages are ranged dps application. Even if that dps is not as theortically high as another tech III could muster, it will be projectible far beyond the other tech IIIs. This is a very big advantage in the current midrange paradigm that the game favors. Also, that dps is not subject to tracking, so don't worry about fitting the 100mn ab, etc.

The Tengu is used heavily in wormhole, 0.0 and level 4 pve, and 0.0 fleet pvp with shield logi support, and in 100mn ab small gang skirmishing.

The Legion shines in incursion pve, but one really does not see them as much in pvp.

The Loki and Proteus shine for long tackle in armor gang and fleet pvp with armor buffer and logistic support, and some solo/sm gang hunter/killing.

And all of them are used for ss-ing link running (well except maybe the proteus) since CCP derped and gave them better link bonuses than the tech II command ships.

But on balance the Tengus are everywhere, and the others are not. Some of it has to do with the nature of the heavy missile weapon system. It can be made to address various targets at various ranges a lot easier than other weapon systems. If HM range was reduced or operated differently, i.e. needing mods like TEs or TCs that competed for slots with tanking mods or damage mods the way the current situation is for turret users, we might not be seeing Tengus everywhere.
Pink Marshmellow
Caucasian Culture Club
#15 - 2012-09-11 00:25:53 UTC
Absolutions are better laser buffer boats than legions will ever be.

Nearly the same EHP, but the Absolution has more Resists, while the legion has more hitpoints. In an RR gang the Absolution shines over legion. In engagements where most fights occur in T2 warp disruptor range (24km) the range bonus on the Legion doesn't mean as much.

The Tengu do better in K-space than Wormholes since fights usually occur in 5 km of a wormhole. A tengu will be webbed and neuted before it can burn away from a wormhole by a well organized gang.

The Loki with fed navy webs that reach 35km and can hold a Tengu down with dual webs with ease. It makes a poor shield tank when put in a web configuration. Its armor tank is weaker than legion or the proteus, but better than Tengu.

The Proteus is ideal for wormhole space because of the very short engagement range battles. The proteus has high dps, but has very short range even with the falloff bonus and null ammo. Lots of time wasted burning into range to shoot a target.
Alphaphi
KASK Heavy logistics
#16 - 2012-09-11 06:29:02 UTC
The proteus really shines when it comes to hotdropping with a Blops compared to the other t3.
it's the only ship that can reach respectable dps and tank numbers with the covert sub.
dethleffs
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#17 - 2012-09-11 07:09:19 UTC
Pink Marshmellow wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
Veryez wrote:
The legion also can be setup as a 'super pilgrim', I know a few people who swear by them.


Now this got my attention. I may have to look into that, I love that Pilgrim. ;)

There any threads discussing the fit? I never heard of this fit before now.


I was discussing this with Valleria Darkmoon last night and it appears that the idea originated on SHC and has been mentioned a few times in R&K videos. Apparently it has ~350K EHP, the neut, and drone subsystems. It's entire job is to neut the **** out of whatever is nearby and is supported by Guardians. I can't imagine it being easy to shake with 350k EHP, fantastic resists, and a cruiser sig radius.

-Liang


Show me this 350k EHP, Drone sub, Neut legion.



It's really not that hard to put together actually. Fleetbonuses LG slaves and some faction hardeners and you're set
Jim Tudeski
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-09-11 07:31:01 UTC
Pink Marshmellow wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
Veryez wrote:
The legion also can be setup as a 'super pilgrim', I know a few people who swear by them.


Now this got my attention. I may have to look into that, I love that Pilgrim. ;)

There any threads discussing the fit? I never heard of this fit before now.


I was discussing this with Valleria Darkmoon last night and it appears that the idea originated on SHC and has been mentioned a few times in R&K videos. Apparently it has ~350K EHP, the neut, and drone subsystems. It's entire job is to neut the **** out of whatever is nearby and is supported by Guardians. I can't imagine it being easy to shake with 350k EHP, fantastic resists, and a cruiser sig radius.

-Liang


Show me this 350k EHP, Drone sub, Neut legion.

[Legion, Cheap]
Damage Control II
Centus C-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

Corelum C-Type 10MN Afterburner
Warp Scrambler II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 25

Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Small Energy Neutralizer II
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating
Legion Electronics - Energy Parasitic Complex
Legion Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Legion Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector
Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization


Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x10
Vespa EC-600 x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

That was hard. 245k EHP without Slaves or Legion buffs(357k with Legion boosts, 370k with Slaves, 542k with both) and with a single Large Cap Transfer from a Guardian everything perma-runs. 546m/s, 147m sig and does 238 DPS as well. You can obviously substitute the cap booster for another web or TP or something but eh. I'll let you figure that one out.