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Call For Discussion : CSM Voting Reform

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CliveWarren
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#661 - 2012-09-10 04:48:00 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
You are bad at using forums.


awwwwww, poor muffin, we're not appreciating how totally hard he and his **** goons friends are kind-of-sort-of-not-really advocating on our behalf!
Garet Jackson
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#662 - 2012-09-10 04:48:18 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
You are bad at using forums.


Maybe you should be spending your forum time using your IRL Political and Social skills to calmly discuss and win people over to your way of thinking rather than playing trollesque forum games with people who disagree with you.

You are a CSM. You are supposed to represent us. Act like it.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#663 - 2012-09-10 04:48:50 UTC
Xolve wrote:
[quote=Alekseyev Karrde]You almost as bad at profiling as your are at counter-argument.

I'm certainly not mad about my FW Alt Farm, nor is it my 'priority' in game- it's just too good to pass up. Being 'space-rich' in the past was talked about in inner circles with personal tech moons being the highest metric to measure space wealth, now its faction warfare alts, that if used properly and efficiently, can make a tech moons monthly income in 2 days in one of the two factions that continuously spike T5 warzone control.

Continue speaking on matters that arn't as important as a voting reform.

Excuse us, while we all laugh at your ignorance and stupidity.

Could we get Xenuria in, I think they'd be able to do better.

At least they can just act insane and we won't know if it's trolling, covering up something, or genuine.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#664 - 2012-09-10 04:49:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Garet Jackson wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
You are bad at using forums.

Maybe you should be spending your forum time using your IRL Political and Social skills to calmly discuss and win people over to your way of thinking rather than playing trollesque forum games with people who disagree with you.

You are a CSM. You are supposed to represent us. Act like it.

Ahaha, and you're awesome at forums pvp?

No. They are representing all the badposters who form the majority of eve. All good posters need to be reeducated into the new way of posting.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#665 - 2012-09-10 04:49:43 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Dramaticus wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
There's tons of things wrong with the game. I'd like to know which of them we are "failing to address to CCP"

The lack of having an answer on hand says a lot about the whine on this thread


I'll knock this one right out of the park.

Faction Warfare.

Despite not being on the CSM, Hans Jagerblitzen was a main player in providing feedback for FW reforms going into Inferno. Since he's been elected he's worked tirelessly in public and in private to improve the experience of FW players by being in near constant contact with that community shuttling between them and CCP. Despite having to do it by chat, Hans was very vocal during the FW meeting at the CSM summit. There's pages and pages of feedback on the CCP/CSM forums since then about upcoming iterations on FW coming in the Winter patch with Hans, Elise, and many others engaging successfully.
I will agree with Aleks here. Hans is doing a lot of work with CCP to try to improve FW.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#666 - 2012-09-10 04:50:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
EDIT: Just realized I'm trying to protect the voting power of players who don't want help of any kind. Enjoy Trebor.

the 'downfall' parody video is practically writing itself at this point
Powers Sa
#667 - 2012-09-10 04:53:37 UTC
No More Heroes wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Jake Rivers wrote:
Oh and stop screwing around CSM, there are some serious game issues you guys keep failing to address to CCP.

Name em?


1. Overview standings bug: when titan bridging many people at once, often- many pilots will appear to have no standings towards their fleet members and be generically 'neutral'. This gets people shot and killed.

2. Frequent (20-30) disconnects and crashes when moving through gates or titan bridges in groups ranging from 10-256.

3. Module delay: somewhere on these forums someone else brought this up and frapsed it- I can lock a target, be in range, activate my warp scrambler, and he still warps away because my activation cycle delays, and even expresses the delay by starting off at 3/4 cycle rather than 99%.

4. Industry in null sec. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to do any industry in null sec compared to high sec. Ever. Everything is imported except basic frigate hulls. Unless things change.

5. Ghosts on overview. I will have entities linger on my overview for a good 5-7 seconds after they have left the system, jumped a gate, bridged out, warped away, etc.

6. Sometimes the overview gets really bugged and the 'ghosts' stay forever! I've had bombs linger on my overview and appear to be moving for 3,000+km.

I'll write up more as they come to me Smile






I know you guys are dog piling Alekseyev Karrde, but he's been doing a relatively good job based on what I've seen. More so than most pubbies.

The overview standings bug, and Nullsec Industry are things that need attention.
Alliances need bottom up income, and they need people who live in their space. Our coalition imports almost everything from highsec. We rely heavily on Highsec, and sadly, we need highsec. We also rely on the wormhole community for our tengu stuffs. It would be nice to see some nullsec industry boosts beyond mining things. It would be nice to see alliances have the option to tax make more miners before they go to refine. Refining taxes are easily avoidable via NPC pockets and standings. There is no real advantage to building in nullsec versus highsec. Nullsec is largely about pvp, but there is just more to it in general. It is its own entity.

I can talk about nullsec industry problems all day long, but mainly about how I just stopped everytime I tried to get started. I ended up settling with building rigs, ammo, and fuel blocks in nullsec because nothing else is really worth my time.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#668 - 2012-09-10 04:54:03 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
EDIT: Just realized I'm trying to protect the voting power of players who don't want help of any kind. Enjoy Trebor.


What? Don't dress up your passe trolling catchphrases, chiding of other players and dodging of questions as "protecting the voting power of players" because that's really just a terrible attempt to insult our intelligence.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#669 - 2012-09-10 04:54:06 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
EDIT: Just realized I'm trying to protect the voting power of players who don't want help of any kind. Enjoy Trebor.

the 'downfall' parody video is practically writing itself at this point

Ahahahahaha, he trying to "protect" our voting power. That's just... hahahah

I mean, wow. Let's get writing that 'downfall' parody video now.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Garet Jackson
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#670 - 2012-09-10 04:55:09 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Garet Jackson wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
You are bad at using forums.

Maybe you should be spending your forum time using your IRL Political and Social skills to calmly discuss and win people over to your way of thinking rather than playing trollesque forum games with people who disagree with you.

You are a CSM. You are supposed to represent us. Act like it.

Ahaha, and you're awesome at forums pvp?

No. They are representing all the badposters who form the majority of eve. All good posters need to be reeducated into the new way of posting.


I totally get that. And in no way am I super awesome at forums PVP.

However, if the guys hope is to win people over to his way of thinking, he is doing the exact opposite by what he is posting.

While I admit that CSMs aren't real life politicians or anything that is remotely srs bizness, I don't expect them to try to disenfranchise voters simply because they don't like a large power bloc. The way the CSM is done now isn't broken enough in a way that you should prioritize it over the many listed larger problems OF THE ACTUAL GAME. Wait... I mean, it's not broken unless you don't like goons. And then I am sure these people think its really broken.

TL;DR Leave the system alone. Worry about problems that actually are in game and don't be so worried about staying in your CSM seat. Love him or hate him, Mittani actually worked to make nullsec better.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#671 - 2012-09-10 04:55:18 UTC
Andski wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
EDIT: Just realized I'm trying to protect the voting power of players who don't want help of any kind. Enjoy Trebor.

What? Don't dress up your passe trolling catchphrases, chiding of other players and dodging of questions as "protecting the voting power of players" because that's really just a terrible attempt to insult our intelligence.

So from "i'm not trying to shred your vote, though the system should shred your vote", now it's "we're protecting your vote by putting it in the shredder".

Keep it up, now try to be smoother in your presentation.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#672 - 2012-09-10 04:55:34 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Let's get writing that 'downfall' parody video now.


What really needs to be written at this point?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#673 - 2012-09-10 04:55:58 UTC
CliveWarren wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
You are bad at using forums.


awwwwww, poor muffin, we're not appreciating how totally hard he and his **** goons friends are kind-of-sort-of-not-really advocating on our behalf!

::hands Clive a tissue::

All this threadnought has accomplished has derailed any hope of public discussion and provided encouragement for CSM/CCP to figure things out ourselves. This despite several attempts from several different CSM, yes including me a bunch, to get the "OP says **** Goons" crowd to accept when they've made a good point successfully and let things move on so a better proposal than the initial one can be developed.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#674 - 2012-09-10 04:56:23 UTC
Garet Jackson wrote:
TL;DR Leave the system alone. Worry about problems that actually are in game and don't be so worried about staying in your CSM seat. Love him or hate him, Mittani actually worked to make nullsec better.

Mittani also most likely will just sit on the side playing Tanks or MWO or something now.

Truly, the end of an age. And now we have this.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#675 - 2012-09-10 04:56:43 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
You are bad at using forums.


Better than just being all around bad I would say, still patiently waiting for your arguement- or have you ducked out to Twitter to amass your "constituents".
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#676 - 2012-09-10 04:57:53 UTC
Andski wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Let's get writing that 'downfall' parody video now.

What really needs to be written at this point?

*cough*

"We will introduce some voting reforms."
"How can we keep that secret?" *points at map*
"We will introduce it months ahead of the elections and try to sneak it thought" *waving around on map.*
"What about if the goons learn about it?"

"Mein CSM member, the goons are already in the thread."
....

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Antoine Jordan
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#677 - 2012-09-10 04:58:28 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Xolve wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:

Despite not being on the CSM, Hans Jagerblitzen was a main player in providing feedback for FW reforms going into Inferno. Since he's been elected he's worked tirelessly in public and in private to improve the experience of FW players by being in near constant contact with that community shuttling between them and CCP. Despite having to do it by chat, Hans was very vocal during the FW meeting at the CSM summit. There's pages and pages of feedback on the CCP/CSM forums since then about upcoming iterations on FW coming in the Winter patch with Hans, Elise, and many others engaging successfully.

Sooooo more like an easy in field catch.


So there is nothing broken about farming alts raking in 10-15b isk a day in Loyalty points until 'Winter'.

Awesome.

I can totally see your point for changing the voting scheme now, no- wait. I can't.

That problem was raised and will be addressed. You're mad about it not being able to happen tomorrow, but pretend that it not happening overnight means that nothing was said about it or will happen to fix it.

Sooo you've p much marginalized your self. Good work.

Aleks: You were not elected simply to raise issues with CCP and hope for eventual fixes. You are tasked with getting timely fixes to pressing issues, and CSM7 has NOT delivered on that front. On top of that, the majority of the communication that has come from CSM7 to the player base has been about the CSM as an entity, not about what you guys have actually gotten done. Do you seriously not understand why players are dissatisfied with your (as a group) performance?
CliveWarren
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#678 - 2012-09-10 04:59:41 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
All this threadnought has accomplished has derailed any hope of public discussion and provided encouragement for CSM/CCP to figure things out ourselves. This despite several attempts from several different CSM, yes including me a bunch, to get the "OP says **** Goons" crowd to accept when they've made a good point successfully and let things move on so a better proposal than the initial one can be developed.


"you guys are jerks so we're just going to do what we want anyway!"

Be honest. This thread was never about a discussion, you and your fellow CSM just tried to retcon it into one after the detailed-but-awful proposal in the OP was being thoroughly ripped to shreds.

We've also told you many times why we can't simply drop the point and move on, but I guess reading comprehension isn't the CSM's strong suit.
Smoke Adian
#679 - 2012-09-10 05:00:28 UTC
This is the most self-obsessed, useless CSM in history.

It's like watching a group of bystanders gathered around a burning car crash. As the car burns they stand and wonder:

"What's our purpose in this situation?"
"How do we ensure that we remain the only group of passerby's with the power to save this burning person while not actually saving them?"

"And most importantly, who wants to write up an incident report over 11,000 reams of paper in size detailing this discussion about ourselves followed by another 5,000 reams in which we whole-heartedly agree with the fire department's plan to air drop two inflatable swimming pools full of grade-A jet fuel on the burning car?"
RDevz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#680 - 2012-09-10 05:00:54 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:

All this threadnought has accomplished has derailed any hope of public discussion and provided encouragement for CSM/CCP to figure things out ourselves.


"We don't like the public's opinion, so we're going to go full steam ahead, anyway."

~