Missions & Complexes

We don't need any other incursion channel to pull recruits from, nor do we need any other channel to collect incursion LP pools.



This rabble makes very little sense, however if you're suggesting high sec incursions would've died without btl, tvp and tdf during the nerf you're once again wrong.

As long as there's a pilot demand for fleets and isk to be made, when old communities collapse there will always be new ones. If this isn't the case, CCP really needs to look at the content and rewards for it.

Good to see Noir pilots pleased with the Ultra Carebearing!

http://imgur.com/XT5sw

Isk efficiency for the night seems just fine, thanks for your concern mr. troll. As for recruiting from public channels, it's an experiment we're trying out for the evening.

Our ranks have been filling quite nicely recently with people getting tired of TVP leadership's obnoxious attitude. So much that In fact we've actually had to close down recruitment to our primary channel for now.

Now shoo, or try harder troll.

Edit: It's obvious that you're a butthurt TVP pilot, or possibly even a member of their leadership, but posting idiotic things like this is actually the most counter-productive thing you can do right now for your own community.

It's the moronic statements like the ones you've been writing in this thread and your channels, that get members wanting to follow you around contesting you, or actually starting to properly grief you guys, which our leadership has so far been strictly opposed to.

You are a sad angry little man. However I digress, we will tone down the contesting against TVP. We believe that other communities should exist and we all should get along. It'd be a shame to see pilots leave incursions and the game due to contesting and bad blood, besides contesting TVP isn't a contest at all, it's pillaging. We are bringing some noobs in to show them what we do, our efficiency and give them incentive to come back when their skills and fittings can match our standards, also to show them that we are not bad people. You said that ISN is killing their base by 'griefing' TVP, however you failed to consider the worst possible outcome. Pilots are already walking over by the dozen. We do feel TVP and other communities should exist and have fun, but if we continue to see the ISN vitriol circlejerk in your channels, your wardeccing alliances, preloading sites, and jamming our logis, then let it be known the possible outcome of ramping up the contests to full time and creating our own noob pilot HQ channel, effectively kill TVP, turning it into the next BTL. This is the worst case scenario for TVP, but instead of enacting that, we would rather defuse this situation and let everyone go back to drama free isk farming. If I can stop trolling channels and posting demotivational memes, and if we can ease up on contesting, then you can stop wardeccing, jamminging, and preloading in TVP's name, while pointing at ISN screaming "look at those griefers".

We can all go back to getting along and existing side by side, maybe you can't, but most everyone else has voiced they would prefer this outcome, instead of the alternative.

What the big bosses forgot to mention is the following:
By the two communities you mean BTL and TDF, if i'm correct.
If that's the case the agreement is obsolete since both communities cant do this anymore.
TDF cannot field a mom fleet anymore, this is the case since a long time now.
Btl is dead.

It is time, like with everything in this game to evolve.
Therefore the agreement needs to be either set aside or redone.
If redone the following might work:

Every Mom is up for contest to every incursion community out there. but with go down 'x hours' after with drawl

In the mean time, a possible solution to this drama can be: ISN ignores the existence of TVP, and goes about their business like normal. Eventually the drama will wither away, or TVP will die, whatever comes first.

Just my 2 isk.

Not in high sec.

Guess i should add to that, We run shield fleets exclusively in high sec, since the 'know vs unkown' variables in high sec never change. A single deadspace shield module is often all that is required for tank on many Incursion sites, allowing for dammage mods and tracking/scan res mods to be used in all remaining slots.

Why are you hiding behind an alt?

I agree with you on certain points, but the message of your post is "ISN is bad!" and "I don't like Noble Ranger." not "Stop this bullshit!". You may say you have no loyalties, but you're clearly taking sides. You ignore/don't mention all the bullshit TVP Managment did, that lead to this unecessary drama in the first place. Most notably the "Let's pop every MOM as soon as the next High Sec Incursion spawns." week. And the fact that you're hiding behind an alt, doesn't make you look better. I can't take you serious because of that, even though I partially agree with you.

Had to type this out three times, kept changing my mind and deleting it.

I feel a little bad every time we win a contest; I know the other fleet is full of guys just like me. Correction ‘guys and gals’ that like to look at their wallet at the end of the night, they like to see that they have succeeded in making a positive difference in their conquest of EVE. If I think about it enough I get sad at first, then angry. TVP or for that matter any other community that runs Incursions should find a type of site that they are good at and run them. NO you are not good at HQ’s and MOM’s you just throw enough bodies at it that it dies, and enough of those bodies survive to make it almost profitable.

I am sure they think we travel around the system looking for contests, We don’t,
I am sure they think we find it funny that we made it all and they made nothing, We don’t.
I am sure they think a lot of thing, Most of them wrong.

My advice, VG systems are relatively abandoned during ISN peak times, Take 9 or 11 of your friends to the closest VG system. Start with the NMC’s as they are the easiest VG sites bring 3 logistics till you get the hang of it then you can trim down to 2 logistics. Do one wave at a time and make sure your ready for the next wave when you pop the last ship in a spawn. Do these till your eyes bleed then do them some more. You will get an occasional contest. You will lose a few, but more importantly, eventually, you will not lose.

We know, because we did this, the average ISN pilot has earned well over 20 billion ISK running VG sites. They have lost time and contests, they have given up on other ventures and training time, to do this ‘one thing’ and to do it perfectly. They have earned their stripes.

These same pilots moved to assaults during the Nerf. When the other communities grouped up and moved to HQ’s exclusively. In assaults we learned how to maximize logistics and minimize risk, at the same time we trained the pilots to follow the kill orders and make the most of every shot, and most of all we perfected the fits to allow the needed buffer without sacrificing the purpose of a gun boat ‘The Guns’. It should be noted that all of us started with a T2 fit, T1 rigged, Pirate Faction BS, the rest comes from hard work and reinvesting.

Our pilots reinvest in there Toon as well; very few ISN Toons will be found without a full set of +6% damage implants, many with 6% engineering implants as well, to allow the super tight ship fits to work. An ISN clone can easily outstrip most EVE ships in cost.

All these sacrifices have earned them the right to take the HQ sites by storm, We don’t want to own Incursions, We don’t want to kill any communities, we want to do all sites, in all systems, perfectly, as a team. If we land on the same site as another fleet we are not stalking, the answer is simple; it was the closest site to the last one we finished.

I am sorry you lost the contest, and I am truly sorry that your FC or community leader didn’t properly prepare you, or themselves for these type of sites. I can’t repay the ISK you lost in any meaningful way. But I can give this advice; start from the beginning, ‘VG’s’ there is unlimited ISK available here, all you need, some good friends, and a little time.

After contemplating the ISN Primary meeting of Sep 9, I have decided to voluntarily remove my post that encouraged others to attack ISN. I am also ceasing all hostilities in all of their forms against ISN.

In response to some of the issues addressed at the meeting:

1) ISN leadership seems to have realized that contesting TVP off the field at every opportunity would lead to TVP's destruction, regardless of the intent, and that TVP's destruction may be a bad idea. I applaud ISN's leadership for seeing that this would be bad for business, barring a plan to replace TVP, which I will address later.

2) Random players talking smack about ISN in TVP's channel is not a good enough reason to escalate the problem further by griefing TVP in general. It's Eve. People will always talk smack. It's a public channel. The grownups are already over it, and if you aren't over it, you need to grow up.

3) Some ISN pilots feel that ISN should keep pressure on TVP until TVP's leadership resigns. The rationalization here is that it will "be doing TVP a favor". Frankly, that's a load of crap, for the following reasons. First of all, if your goal is to "go after" someone, you shouldn't waste ISN's time and reputation to satisfy your own desire for vendetta. You mad bro? Then go after them personally. But don't drag me along with you. I am in ISN to make ISK, not to fight your battles for you. Also, it's a case of the devil you know vs the one you don't. You may not like TVP's leadership now, but, anytime you create a vacuum, it will be filled by an unknown quantity. Food for thought.

4) Some pilots feel that the attacks on TVP should continue until it is destroyed because "most TVP pilots can't PVP". Well, whether TVP has enough PVP pilots to be a threat is certainly debatable, but consider the following: How much training does it take to pull the trigger on a catalyst to pop a pod? Not much. To quote goldiiee, "An ISN clone can easily outstrip most EVE ships in cost." Second and imho much more dangerous point: How much ISK do TVP pilots have in their wallets? Eventually a critical mass will be reached where individual TVP pilots are pissed off enough to spend the ISK necessary to hire people who are very versed at the ways and means of ganking ... well... anything, given enough ISK. One thing all long-term incursion runners have is ISK. Motivate them enough to spend it and you will suffer casualties. The only ones who win in such a scenario are the mercs. Props to ISN leadership for slowing down this ball before it reaches full speed and things get more serious than a few wardecs and failed blackbird attacks. (Speaking of which, seen any mercs around lately in incursions? I have. 'Sup Noir.)

5) "Let's start our OWN TVP!" Yeah, great idea. Destroy something that is already in place and working and poses no threat, and expend the time and resources needed to put something else up to replace it. So, everyone who wants to volunteer to FC this new ISNoob community and keep fleets running 23/7, raise your hand. *long silence* C'mon, no one wants to spend all their time teaching people how to set up their overviews to see tags? How to count from 0 to 9 and back to 1 again? Basic fleet window mechanics? How to broadcast? But it's so much fun! Oh wait, you can't really be doing that while running sites at light speed and making ISK, can you. I think this was one of those, "What a great idea as long as I don't have to do it" ideas. The alternative? Simply allowing TVP to run HQs unmolested which ultimately trains new pilots who will likely be future ISN pilots after a few hundred hours of bumbling around. You tell me. Which is easier? Which profits ISN more? Again, it appears ISN leadership can see the obvious choice here, and again I applaud them for not caving to the temptation to break something just because they can.

What I took away from the meeting is that ISN realizes that contesting TVP out of system on a regular basis will destroy TVP and that this will be a bad thing for ISN and the incursion community as a whole. They realize that harmony is better for business than war, despite the irrational blood-thirst of some members. Bravo.

p.s. - Happy birthday Goldiiee

I realized that one other important point was brought up at the meeting that I completely forgot to cover, and another point which was not addressed at the meeting.

As kranyoldlady pointed out, many incursion pilots have friends in both ISN and TVP. Many pilots fly with both ISN and TVP, especially for HQs, and even moreso for MOM fleets.

As another speaker pointed out, this should be about fun because it is a video game, but it is also about friends, and that brings up the subject of loyalty. A division between those pilots who are loyal to ISN and those who are loyal to TVP is unhealthy because it splits up friendships that cross these boundaries. In some cases, this division causes conflict within individuals themselves who wish to be loyal to both ISN and TVP... in other words, to all of their friends in both groups.

On a personal level, that is where I am. I do not wish to be made to choose between the good people in ISN who are devoted to excellence, and the good people in TVP who are devoted to acceptance, and I should not have to. This is why people are posting with alts. No one wants to be seen as taking a side and be excluded from the other side, because we have friends on both sides. No one wants to burn bridges, and they shouldn't be forced to.

A tremendous amount of progress has been made in the past few days toward going back to having fun with friends and making ISK and that is a good thing. There are few more details to be hashed out, but we are almost there. Ironically, the only vexing question left is ... what about the MOM? This is where all hell broke loose in the first place, with one side being a bit arrogant about making the rules, the other side proving a point which was taken as a threat to the status quo, responses made to that threat, etc. etc. In the end, it is best for everyone if the MOM is done as late as possible because no one likes to jump half-way across the universe any more than absolutely necessary. Can we all agree that moving more often than we need to is bothersome and stupid? I hope so, as it is blatantly obvious.

I would urge ISN to address this issue not only on an internal level, but also to reach out to the rest of the community with a plan that is both "fair" on some level and fun. Perhaps we could run the MOM on a rotation basis when there is only one high sec incursion and split the incursions when there is more than one. IE every third MOM belongs to ISN, TVP, and TDF (the only three communities capable of fielding a fleet). This would mirror the agreements that were in place and working between TVP and TDF before ISN was capable of forming a large enough fleet to do a MOM. However, this is only one possible way to resolve this.

Perhaps it could be a free-for-all of sorts, with everyone attempting to form fleets that contest for the MOM with only the TIME being set in stone. In other words, all communities could agree to not take the gate before a specified time, and all else is fair game. Pilots could join whatever fleet they wished and we could all have fun in a massive contest. Of course this means ISN fleets will almost certainly "win" the MOM contest every time because they have the shiny ships, T2/faction ammo, more contest experience, more player/character skills, etc. So this solution is a bit unfair in a way, but, speaking for myself I really do not CARE who "wins" the MOM as long as it goes down as late as possible. This would also be an opportunity for ISN to demonstrate to the other incursion pilots what ISN is all about....winning fleets.... and encourages pilots to aspire to the ISN level. This was also brought up in the meeting and it is a valid point. I would rather ISN demonstrate its superiority during the MOM sites as opposed to rolling in randomly to contest TVP HQ fleets which will only cause resentment toward ISN. If ISN wanted to really show their stuff, they could even give the competing fleet(s) a head start, delaying as long as they dare before taking the gate. What would demonstrate their DPS superiority more than allowing for a handicap? It would also make it a challenge and sporting instead of a predictable slaughter, much like a golf handicap.


Obviously, in such a scenario, there would be no repercussions toward pilots who X up for one fleet or another. If you usually fly with TVP but X up for the ISN fleet and get in, great! If you can't get in because you're not shiny enough and get into the TVP or TDF fleet, great! At least you're flying, having fun, and get to participate in one of the greatest spectacles in Eve PVE, even if you probably won't get paid. Train those skills, buy those shiny ships and mods, and next time you might get into the ISN MOM fleet and get paid. No butthurt, no misunderstandings, and NO BLACKLISTS.

As for the loot, well, ninjas will continue to be a problem without an easy solution.

I am just throwing ideas out here. It is up to the leaders of the communities to hash out the details. But again I would urge these leaders to PLEASE not make incursion pilots do any more jumping than is necessary because it is BORING and we could be making ISK instead of jumping gates. It also discourages pilots from bringing more than one ship which makes things less fun and less efficient for everyone. It encourages pilots to skip incursions entirely because they don't want to do 31 jumps only to have to do them yet again tomorrow which means less pilots Xing up which means more time spent forming and less time running. So again, please, try to work this out.