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Barge Fairy Tale

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Author
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#3461 - 2012-09-08 16:43:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Corina Jarr
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Again, since you seem incapable of comprehending: many PVP ships have to use fitting mods and/or rigs as well. Why should the exhumers be any different?


Because miners have 6 ships (barges/exhumers)
Barges should be the harder ones to fit cpu/pg wise, not exhumers...but you have hundreds of ships outside of the mining profession. Not everyone will use the extra cpu to fit tank but whats wrong with giving the 3 exhumers more cpu to give us more fitting options? It's not like we can pick a different race or line of ships to fit...we are stuck with 3 exhumers.


Black ops have a choice of 4 ships. Bombers have a choice of 4 ships. Logistics have a choice of 2 ships.




But overall hundreds of ships that are combat based....mining still only has the 3 barges and 3 exhumers.

But mining is not equivalent to combat. That would be industry.

Mining is a subset of industry, just as bomber or black ops is a subset of combat.

There just happen to be more subsets of combat than there are of industry.
Pipa Porto
#3462 - 2012-09-08 20:26:11 UTC
Hypercake Mix wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Explain exactly how you can make a profit (or break even) ganking a Skiff. Keep in mind that profitable (or at least break-even) ganking is the only thing that allows industrialized ganking, which is the only thing that provides any significant risk to the HS mining fleet.

SkiffGuy gets ganked by a few Tornados.
SkiffGuy: *totally racist British accent* Good show ol' chaps. You're the first to successfully gank my tug-boat 'ere. *gives 500mil to gankers* I say, I applaud that jolly good show!

Well... that'd probably never happen. Maybe if you caught a Skiff on a gate that was sitting there all day and two gank attempts already happened on it and it's on fire from sitting in low structure and you found out it's got a bunch of deadspace mods on it. That probably wouldn't happen either.

Whatever. Casual high-sec mining is for when you feel a need for mystical space-zen meditation or those "how the heck did we run out of ammo" moments when your hauler guy went afk looking for his cat six hours ago.



If you want a meditative experience devoid of risk, you should have to use the Skiff which actually sacrifices something for it's safety. Right now, the Mack is strictly better, so why would you bother?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Agent Akari
Dragonfire Industries
#3463 - 2012-09-09 00:44:52 UTC
Ganking mining barges in high sec is a myth. In Ardallabier there over 70-90 hulks and macks in the ice belt and there hasn't been a single gank here for over 48 hours.


Or can we say, the more miners are together, the safer we are? There are a ton of drones here too.
Hypercake Mix
#3464 - 2012-09-09 05:27:44 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
If you want a meditative experience devoid of risk, you should have to use the Skiff which actually sacrifices something for it's safety. Right now, the Mack is strictly better, so why would you bother?

Because it's fun kiting around my own mining drones as they struggle to bring rocks to me.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3465 - 2012-09-09 05:40:52 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:

But overall hundreds of ships that are combat based....mining still only has the 3 barges and 3 exhumers.


Miners can use all of those combat ships too...

Logistic pilots still only have a choice of two ships.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3466 - 2012-09-09 13:44:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Logistic pilots still only have a choice of two ships.


This is true but it's because armor logis are useless.
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#3467 - 2012-09-09 13:48:00 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:

But overall hundreds of ships that are combat based....mining still only has the 3 barges and 3 exhumers.


Miners can use all of those combat ships too...

Logistic pilots still only have a choice of two ships.


Yeah...but nobody specialized in logistic ships and nothing else unless it's an alt with that purpose...and in that case they have nothing to complain about since that was what they were created for. Just sayin...we have so few ships for our profession...sucks to not have any cool high end tough ships like you combat pilots have : \
But than again, it's mining...perhaps I am expecting a little too much out of it.
Pipa Porto
#3468 - 2012-09-09 14:01:10 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:

But overall hundreds of ships that are combat based....mining still only has the 3 barges and 3 exhumers.


Miners can use all of those combat ships too...

Logistic pilots still only have a choice of two ships.


Yeah...but nobody specialized in logistic ships and nothing else unless it's an alt with that purpose...and in that case they have nothing to complain about since that was what they were created for. Just sayin...we have so few ships for our profession...sucks to not have any cool high end tough ships like you combat pilots have : \
But than again, it's mining...perhaps I am expecting a little too much out of it.


baltec1 wrote:
Miners can use all of those combat ships too...



Anyway, like someone else said, mining is a subset of industry like Blops, or Recons, or Bombers are subsets of combat ships. Instead of cool high end ships, you get cool high end manufacturing capabilities.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3469 - 2012-09-09 14:46:46 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Logistic pilots still only have a choice of two ships.


This is true but it's because armor logis are useless.

No, it's true because for any gang you'll be using either armor or shield.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3470 - 2012-09-09 16:19:47 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:

But overall hundreds of ships that are combat based....mining still only has the 3 barges and 3 exhumers.


Miners can use all of those combat ships too...

Logistic pilots still only have a choice of two ships.


Yeah...but nobody specialized in logistic ships and nothing else unless it's an alt with that purpose...and in that case they have nothing to complain about since that was what they were created for. Just sayin...we have so few ships for our profession...sucks to not have any cool high end tough ships like you combat pilots have : \
But than again, it's mining...perhaps I am expecting a little too much out of it.


Miners can use all of those combat ships too...

In case you missed it I said it again.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3471 - 2012-09-09 16:23:13 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
No, it's true because for any gang you'll be using either armor or shield.


Nobody uses armor in fleets. Scimi and Basi are superior in big fleets compared to armor logis. I've seen many Abaddons with shield buffer.
Buck Futz
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3472 - 2012-09-09 16:48:49 UTC

Are we complaining about not enough mining ships now?
Six different barges/Exhumers, a new mining frigate on the way.
Not to mention 4 different mining cruisers and some battleships are well suited to mining.

And the Orca. (Yes, its a mining ship, CCP said when it was stealth patched "it wasn't intended to be used by ninjas")
And the Rorq.



Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#3473 - 2012-09-09 17:07:16 UTC
Buck Futz wrote:

Are we complaining about not enough mining ships now?
Six different barges/Exhumers, a new mining frigate on the way.
Not to mention 4 different mining cruisers and some battleships are well suited to mining.

And the Orca. (Yes, its a mining ship, CCP said when it was stealth patched "it wasn't intended to be used by ninjas")
And the Rorq.





Cruisers are only used for mining until you're able to fly a barge. Which takes what? A week? There are years of combat related things to train for... after 3 months you're not able to train for a better mining ship because there isn't anything to train for.

The new mining frigate is useless to anyone who plans on a mining profession in eve...because a barge will be better and a week into playing you can be in one. Orca and Rorqual are mining ships sure...but they don't mine, so....they don't count.
Buck Futz
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3474 - 2012-09-09 17:25:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Buck Futz
Well, I'd wait to see the stats on the Frigate, one point of 'tiericide' is that ships are no longer brutally obsolete after a week - but to a point I agree, it isn't going to replace an Exhumer in 'safe' highsec.

Still, six barges, the Rohk and the Apoc isn't bad, plus the auxiliary ships.

Oh, and I almost forgot the Archon....


I mean, how many different flavors of mining barge do you really need?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3475 - 2012-09-09 17:33:52 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
No, it's true because for any gang you'll be using either armor or shield.


Nobody uses armor in fleets. Scimi and Basi are superior in big fleets compared to armor logis. I've seen many Abaddons with shield buffer.

And I've flown in several Abaddon fleets which were armor tanked, with Guardian support. There are also armor HAC fleets which NCdot still enjoys using. The only reason shield is more popular in large fleets is because of the popularity of perma-MWD Drakes, welpcanes, and alpha fleets. It has nothing to do with the differences between shield and armor itself.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#3476 - 2012-09-09 17:35:57 UTC
Buck Futz wrote:
Well, I'd wait to see the stats on the Frigate, one point of 'tiericide' is that ships are no longer brutally obsolete after a week - but to a point I agree, it isn't going to replace an Exhumer in 'safe' highsec.

Still, six barges, the Rohk and the Apoc isn't bad, plus the auxiliary ships.

I mean, how many different flavors of mining barge do you really need?


What is the point of recommending a battleship for mining when a retriever is something you can fly a week into playing?

You're not seeing it from a miners perspective. People just expect mining to be a side profession you do when you're not off doing combat related things. Miners gather the resources to build everything, and we have a handful of ships that are even worth flying...and usually only half of that handful is worth flying lol.
Could have racial exhumers for instance, each races versions would have different looks obviously, and be better at different aspect of mining/tanking/ect...
That would create more variety for us, give us more to do, more to train for, more options. Instead we are getting an ORE Frigate... lol.

Sorry we are going a little off topic now.

TL;DR version
More variety would be nice, and I don't think it would be terribly difficult to do.


OT: I've nothing left to say about the Mackinaw changes, I actually agree with you guys about the changes.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3477 - 2012-09-09 17:41:27 UTC
Buck Futz wrote:
I mean, how many different flavors of mining barge do you really need?


Are you saying that old "Retriever then Hulk" was better than current?

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
And I've flown in several Abaddon fleets which were armor tanked, with Guardian support.


That must have been many years ago...
Buck Futz
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3478 - 2012-09-09 17:48:05 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Buck Futz wrote:
I mean, how many different flavors of mining barge do you really need?


Are you saying that old "Retriever then Hulk" was better than current?


Nope because before it was "Retriever then Hulk and Mack"
Now its "Retriever and Mack."

So if anything, we've gone backwards.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3479 - 2012-09-09 17:50:17 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
That must have been many years ago...

No.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#3480 - 2012-09-09 19:16:12 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Logistic pilots still only have a choice of two ships.


This is true but it's because armor logis are useless.

Interestingly, the majority of station game logis are Guardians.