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Barge Fairy Tale

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Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3421 - 2012-09-07 21:12:01 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Abel Merkabah wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:


But current Mackinaws can't fit all tank without a cpu upgrade or cpu rig included. Or at least I haven't found a way.



You simply haven't found the way to do it. The old mack could be made gank proof so the new one is even easyer. I'll see about posting some fits when I get access to my PC.


Nothing is Gank proof dude, you know this.


I'm sure plenty of miners that fly intelligently would argue against that statement...and they probably don't even need to fit a tank...

Fly smart and pay attention to your surroundings and you will be effectively gank proof...


That doesn't keep you safe. Nothing stopping the gank crew from having a scout warp in in a harmless looking ship getting close to you and creating a bookmark or having the others warp to him. By the time you see what is going on...you won't have time to escape. And I am not saying you should have time to escape...if you're not tanked and get caught by suicide gankers you deserve it...but that isn't what this is about. It's about making the Mackinaw more balanced in comparison to the other 2 which I can admit it's not... but some people just want to nerf it too much.


Really, because if you are mining aligned to safe spots, you can warp out before they can lock...how do they gank you if they can't lock?...hmmm? You simply need a little prep in the system you are in and to be there paying attention so you can warp when they hit grid. And if you are using DScan defensively, you should see them while they are warping in, to be ready for it.

But I guess that is probably asking for too much active play...

James315 for CSM 8!
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#3422 - 2012-09-07 21:13:45 UTC
The Exhumers should follow this in my opinion we will call it Hi/Low/Low

Skiff Hi tank Low cargo Low Yield

Mak Hi Cargo Low tank Low Yield

Hulk Hi Yield Low tank Low Cargo

What we have atm is

Hulk Hi low low
Mak Med Med Hi
Skif Hi Med Med
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#3423 - 2012-09-07 21:14:14 UTC
Abel Merkabah wrote:




Really, because if you are mining aligned to safe spots, you can warp out before they can lock...how do they gank you if they can't lock?...hmmm? You simply need a little prep in the system you are in and to be there paying attention so you can warp when they hit grid. And if you are using DScan defensively, you should see them while they are warping in, to be ready for it.

But I guess that is probably asking for too much active play...


If you're aligned and moving sure...its hard to stop you. But if you're aligned and moving you're constantly out of range of your asteriods so thats just not gonna happen and would make mining even less desirable. If you're aligned but not moving...no, they will lock you before you can warp. I feel like none of you have ever mined before...you should try being on both sides before arguing about it.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3424 - 2012-09-07 21:18:13 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:


I agree, but what is the problem with letting us have that extra cpu to fit a tiny bit of extra tank? You know that if we had the extra cpu most idiot miners will use it to fit a 3rd mining upgrade making it even easier to kill them. So I see no downside, more cpu, less base hitpoints, those of us who want to tank will be able to tank that little bit of extra while greedy miners and bots all fit for yield. Both sides win here.


Its like giving my megathron more powergrid or CPU. They dont need it and if you give them more room it means you dont have to make hard choices with fittings. The mack has the CPU to do its job.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3425 - 2012-09-07 21:19:34 UTC
Because getting a corp frigate to web you is too much ******* work to make sure your precious exhumer can warp out at the first sign of trouble.

We've listed literally dozens of ways in this thread you can keep yourself safe, but the fact that you refuse to do these, got the buff, and still feel entitled to more protection from CCP infuriates me and anybody else who understands this game.

It's not ganker tears, it's "our favorite gaming company is selling out to the lowest common denominator" tears.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3426 - 2012-09-07 21:21:02 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Abel Merkabah wrote:




Really, because if you are mining aligned to safe spots, you can warp out before they can lock...how do they gank you if they can't lock?...hmmm? You simply need a little prep in the system you are in and to be there paying attention so you can warp when they hit grid. And if you are using DScan defensively, you should see them while they are warping in, to be ready for it.

But I guess that is probably asking for too much active play...


If you're aligned and moving sure...its hard to stop you. But if you're aligned and moving you're constantly out of range of your asteriods so thats just not gonna happen and would make mining even less desirable. If you're aligned but not moving...no, they will lock you before you can warp. I feel like none of you have ever mined before...you should try being on both sides before arguing about it.


There are methods of doing exactly that. Setup book marks around the belts over 150km away, then you can switch alignment to different bookmarks as you need to stay in range effectively forcing an orbit around the roid constantly aligned; even better if you can mine with someone else and web each other. Also better to have your bookmarks off grid, the more distance, the more variation in bearing is allowed while still staying "aligned".

Just because you don't know doesn't mean it is not possible.

James315 for CSM 8!
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#3427 - 2012-09-07 21:22:20 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Because getting a corp frigate to web you is too much ******* work to make sure your precious exhumer can warp out at the first sign of trouble.

We've listed literally dozens of ways in this thread you can keep yourself safe, but the fact that you refuse to do these, got the buff, and still feel entitled to more protection from CCP infuriates me and anybody else who understands this game.

It's not ganker tears, it's "our favorite gaming company is selling out to the lowest common denominator" tears.


I don't think I am entitled to anything, you could remove exhumers tomorrow I would find something else to do in EVE. I am just trying to figure out with you guys who want the Mackinaw nerfed...something that would still keep miners happy without keeping things unbalanced.
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3428 - 2012-09-07 21:22:33 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Because getting a corp frigate to web you is too much ******* work to make sure your precious exhumer can warp out at the first sign of trouble.

We've listed literally dozens of ways in this thread you can keep yourself safe, but the fact that you refuse to do these, got the buff, and still feel entitled to more protection from CCP infuriates me and anybody else who understands this game.

It's not ganker tears, it's "our favorite gaming company is selling out to the lowest common denominator" tears.


It's like you are channeling my thoughts...

GET OUT OF MY MIND!!!!

James315 for CSM 8!
Hypercake Mix
#3429 - 2012-09-07 21:23:13 UTC
Could use a Skiff to find targets. No one would suspect a Skiff with a passive targeter and ship scanner until they read this post. Maybe can even bump with nanos and crafty AB usage.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3430 - 2012-09-07 21:25:46 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Because getting a corp frigate to web you is too much ******* work to make sure your precious exhumer can warp out at the first sign of trouble.

We've listed literally dozens of ways in this thread you can keep yourself safe, but the fact that you refuse to do these, got the buff, and still feel entitled to more protection from CCP infuriates me and anybody else who understands this game.

It's not ganker tears, it's "our favorite gaming company is selling out to the lowest common denominator" tears.


I don't think I am entitled to anything, you could remove exhumers tomorrow I would find something else to do in EVE. I am just trying to figure out with you guys who want the Mackinaw nerfed...something that would still keep miners happy without keeping things unbalanced.

You do realize what we're suggesting is also a buff to the Hulk, right?

All this would mean is that the Mackinaw isn't the end all be all ship of choice, be it solo play or fleet. The Hulk will be the definitive fleet option, and the Mackinaw will still be a solo option but you'll simply be required to pay more attention to your ship instead of going semi-AFK.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#3431 - 2012-09-07 21:26:12 UTC
Abel Merkabah wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Abel Merkabah wrote:




Really, because if you are mining aligned to safe spots, you can warp out before they can lock...how do they gank you if they can't lock?...hmmm? You simply need a little prep in the system you are in and to be there paying attention so you can warp when they hit grid. And if you are using DScan defensively, you should see them while they are warping in, to be ready for it.

But I guess that is probably asking for too much active play...


If you're aligned and moving sure...its hard to stop you. But if you're aligned and moving you're constantly out of range of your asteriods so thats just not gonna happen and would make mining even less desirable. If you're aligned but not moving...no, they will lock you before you can warp. I feel like none of you have ever mined before...you should try being on both sides before arguing about it.


There are methods of doing exactly that. Setup book marks around the belts over 150km away, then you can switch alignment to different bookmarks as you need to stay in range effectively forcing an orbit around the roid constantly aligned; even better if you can mine with someone else and web each other. Also better to have your bookmarks off grid, the more distance, the more variation in bearing is allowed while still staying "aligned".

Just because you don't know doesn't mean it is not possible.


Honestly you expect to much from the dullest profession in EVE. You expect miners to do too much while having low hit point ships, while Gankers literally just have to warp in, target, press f1.
You are only thinking of yourselves...
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#3432 - 2012-09-07 21:27:49 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Because getting a corp frigate to web you is too much ******* work to make sure your precious exhumer can warp out at the first sign of trouble.

We've listed literally dozens of ways in this thread you can keep yourself safe, but the fact that you refuse to do these, got the buff, and still feel entitled to more protection from CCP infuriates me and anybody else who understands this game.

It's not ganker tears, it's "our favorite gaming company is selling out to the lowest common denominator" tears.


I don't think I am entitled to anything, you could remove exhumers tomorrow I would find something else to do in EVE. I am just trying to figure out with you guys who want the Mackinaw nerfed...something that would still keep miners happy without keeping things unbalanced.

You do realize what we're suggesting is also a buff to the Hulk, right?

All this would mean is that the Mackinaw isn't the end all be all ship of choice, be it solo play or fleet. The Hulk will be the definitive fleet option, and the Mackinaw will still be a solo option but you'll simply be required to pay more attention to your ship instead of going semi-AFK.


I am completely fine with that too! But I still think you guys want to nerf the Mackinaw just a little too much. The small added CPU inplace of downgrading the hitpoints would be a fair tradeoff in my opinion. Or am I missing something that would create a larger issue here?
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3433 - 2012-09-07 21:28:08 UTC
Hypercake Mix wrote:
Could use a Skiff to find targets. No one would suspect a Skiff with a passive targeter and ship scanner until they read this post. Maybe can even bump with nanos and crafty AB usage.


So how much is a skiff right now? I'm assuming you mean the skiff would apply the point to prevent the miner from leaving?

If that is the case, then enjoy having that skiff corded. Not cost effective. And if I were a miner I'd be ready to leave as soon as some entered point range...that is just prudence.

James315 for CSM 8!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3434 - 2012-09-07 21:31:18 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Honestly you expect to much from the dullest profession in EVE. You expect miners to do too much while having low hit point ships, while Gankers literally just have to warp in, target, press f1.
You are only thinking of yourselves...

If a ganker actually has an objective other than simply destroying your ship, it's a bit more complicated than that.

If they want to make it cost-effective for example, the ganker has to pre-scout and scan the exhumers to find the untanked ones, and gank those. See, the thing about tank is it's supposed to discourage ganks from happening in the first place, not because the tank will help all that much if they really want to break your tank.

Gankers are lazy, and 9/10 times they'll only target you if you make yourself an easy target. So don't.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3435 - 2012-09-07 21:34:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Abel Merkabah
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Abel Merkabah wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Abel Merkabah wrote:




Really, because if you are mining aligned to safe spots, you can warp out before they can lock...how do they gank you if they can't lock?...hmmm? You simply need a little prep in the system you are in and to be there paying attention so you can warp when they hit grid. And if you are using DScan defensively, you should see them while they are warping in, to be ready for it.

But I guess that is probably asking for too much active play...


If you're aligned and moving sure...its hard to stop you. But if you're aligned and moving you're constantly out of range of your asteriods so thats just not gonna happen and would make mining even less desirable. If you're aligned but not moving...no, they will lock you before you can warp. I feel like none of you have ever mined before...you should try being on both sides before arguing about it.


There are methods of doing exactly that. Setup book marks around the belts over 150km away, then you can switch alignment to different bookmarks as you need to stay in range effectively forcing an orbit around the roid constantly aligned; even better if you can mine with someone else and web each other. Also better to have your bookmarks off grid, the more distance, the more variation in bearing is allowed while still staying "aligned".

Just because you don't know doesn't mean it is not possible.


Honestly you expect to much from the dullest profession in EVE. You expect miners to do too much while having low hit point ships, while Gankers literally just have to warp in, target, press f1.
You are only thinking of yourselves...


1. Maybe if miners were constantly busy protecting themselves it wouldn't be so god awful boring to mine. And god forbid miners have to take some of the same protective precautions PvP players do to survive.

2. I have never once ganked a miner; I just do not care for scrubs; whine for mechanics changes when they really need to just learn 2 play. How does it make you feel that I apparently know more about protecting yourself as a miner then you, and I have not mined since the tutorial. Classic case of scrub behavior coming from this thread.

James315 for CSM 8!
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#3436 - 2012-09-07 21:34:08 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Honestly you expect to much from the dullest profession in EVE. You expect miners to do too much while having low hit point ships, while Gankers literally just have to warp in, target, press f1.
You are only thinking of yourselves...

If a ganker actually has an objective other than simply destroying your ship, it's a bit more complicated than that.

If they want to make it cost-effective for example, the ganker has to pre-scout and scan the exhumers to find the untanked ones, and gank those. See, the thing about tank is it's supposed to discourage ganks from happening in the first place, not because the tank will help all that much if they really want to break your tank.

Gankers are lazy, and 9/10 times they'll only target you if you make yourself an easy target. So don't.


You're right.
As long as the nerfing to the mackinaw doesn't make it easy to kill while tanked I guess I have nothing to really complain about. Perhaps I was expecting a little to much :)
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#3437 - 2012-09-07 21:37:28 UTC
Abel Merkabah wrote:


2. I have never once ganked a miner; I just do not care for scrubs; whine for mechanics changes when they really need to just learn 2 play. How does it make you feel that I apparently know more about protecting yourself as a miner then you, and I have not mined since the tutorial. Classic case of scrub behavior coming from this thread.


I underlined the part I find hilarious as you have one currently in your signature. You don't care for those who whine for mechanics changes yet that is all James 315 does...lol. But lets get back on topic.

There is no need to get hostile, its just a game :)

Edit: although...you're whining about changing the Mackinaw....so, you're a hypocrite. :)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3438 - 2012-09-07 21:48:42 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Honestly you expect to much from the dullest profession in EVE. You expect miners to do too much while having low hit point ships, while Gankers literally just have to warp in, target, press f1.
You are only thinking of yourselves...

If a ganker actually has an objective other than simply destroying your ship, it's a bit more complicated than that.

If they want to make it cost-effective for example, the ganker has to pre-scout and scan the exhumers to find the untanked ones, and gank those. See, the thing about tank is it's supposed to discourage ganks from happening in the first place, not because the tank will help all that much if they really want to break your tank.

Gankers are lazy, and 9/10 times they'll only target you if you make yourself an easy target. So don't.


You're right.
As long as the nerfing to the mackinaw doesn't make it easy to kill while tanked I guess I have nothing to really complain about. Perhaps I was expecting a little to much :)

Anything can be easy to kill as long as the ganker brings enough firepower, but on the Hulk right now you can easily discourage ganking by fitting a tank. With the EHP switch the same will be true for the Mackinaw, and the Hulk will be able to focus a bit more on getting the higher yield, which is after all its role.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3439 - 2012-09-07 21:50:44 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Abel Merkabah wrote:


2. I have never once ganked a miner; I just do not care for scrubs; whine for mechanics changes when they really need to just learn 2 play. How does it make you feel that I apparently know more about protecting yourself as a miner then you, and I have not mined since the tutorial. Classic case of scrub behavior coming from this thread.


I underlined the part I find hilarious as you have one currently in your signature. You don't care for those who whine for mechanics changes yet that is all James 315 does...lol. But lets get back on topic.

There is no need to get hostile, its just a game :)

Edit: although...you're whining about changing the Mackinaw....so, you're a hypocrite. :)


I haven't whined once in favor of a change for the mining barges; I have argued that there is no reason for changes. All I've done is point out that you can protect yourself. Nice ad hominen, no real argument, so you resort to attempting to discredit me.

Take the advice offered in this thread and you will be fine. Fly safe.

James315 for CSM 8!
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3440 - 2012-09-07 21:54:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
MIrple wrote:

What we have atm is

Hulk Hi low low
Mak Med Med Hi
Skif Hi Med Med

You have one too many med's in there.