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Legion.
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Keilateau Shakor
Shakor Freight and Mining Service
#21 - 2012-09-07 15:30:10 UTC
I don't even remember anymore why I put this together. It works though, sort of.
Just avoid Blood Raiders.

[Legion, Because I can]
Core B-Type Armor EM Hardener
Core B-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Dark Blood Medium Armor Repairer
Dark Blood Medium Armor Repairer
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Cap Recharger II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Legion Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Legion Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization
Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-09-07 15:47:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Shereza
Lovely. I go to edit my post and make a new one instead. Between this and going to post something only to have the forums reload the post message page with nothing in it and having to scramble to click the drafts link before it saves a blank "draft" over the real post I'm sure loving the forum changes. Roll
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-09-11 16:22:16 UTC  |  Edited by: IGNATIUS HOOD
Shereza wrote:
[Legion, L4]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Federation Navy Co-Processor
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Corelum A-Type 10MN Afterburner
Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Gist A-Type EM Ward Field
Gist A-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

Heavy Beam Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Multifrequency M
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating
Legion Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Legion Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Legion Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector
Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization


Hammerhead II x5

Only problem with that setup, aside from the fact that it's a legion and using relatively "gank me now" modules, is that the rigs are overkill. The whole ship is cap-stable. You can make the tank (afterburner and booster) stable by using just T1 CCCs leaving the guns to cap you out of course, and doing 2 T2 CCC rigs and a shield EM rig will keep the tank stable and boost it as well. The problem with that, however, is that a shield resistance rig on an armor tanked setup, which you'll probably do later, is pretty useless. That's ignoring the boost in signature radius and the (minimal) effect it will have on damage taken. If a battleship can speed tank L4s moving at only 300m/s at best and with a 440 DPS tank then a T3 cruiser pushing 740m/s with a 370 DPS tank ought to be able to do it as well.

All in all were I to use a legion in L4s I'd use a build like that rather than trying to use some sort of gun (or HAM) based build, though in all fairness you could probably push a slightly cheaper HAM variant of that build through with nearly 87% of the raw DPS and against any NPC not weak to EM/thermal probably more effective DPS than the drone synthesis variant.

[Legion, L4 HAMs]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Corelum A-Type 10MN Afterburner
Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Gist A-Type EM Ward Field
Gist A-Type Thermic Dissipation Field

Dread Guristas Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile
Dread Guristas Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile
Dread Guristas Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile
Dread Guristas Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile
Dread Guristas Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating
Legion Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Legion Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization
Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization

Hmm. Don't think I like how well those missiles would fare against really small targets though. Could switch to 2 T2 rigor rigs and a T2 flare rig and upgrade one CPU to a FedNav variant to increase the rDPS->eDPS conversion I suppose, but if you get into a mission where you have to run the booster for any length you'll have issues after two minutes. On the flip side if you spring for 4 CalNav BCUs (or DG) you'll get a whopping 6.3% increase in rDPS *and* be able to use just two T1 CPU modules. Or you could spend even more money, put an even bigger "gank me now" flag over your head, fit a FN CPU, and have an extra low slot for something else like another propulsion mod as 8 CPU isn't much to work with on a shield-tanked ship.



I hate everything about both of these, they are way too shiny and they try to overcome the natural limitations of the hull by slamming as much overpriced hardware into it. I'm sure you can do the job with this, but personally you'd be stupid to attempt it. I mean a guy would have to run 100s of missions to afford it in the first place. Please in the future refrain from posting anything about the Legion until you've actually flown one, someone might actually take your advice.

HAMs for missions is stupid, you need range, ideally you want to be blapping targets +50 kms in L4s especially solo, you do not want them on top of you if you can avoid it. These demand a close engagement.

My advice, use a beam fit Apoc with an active tank thats got cap stability, use drones to kill the frigates that get close and blap everything else at range. If you want to or have the ISK, invest in one of each type of Deadspace Hardener and mix and match them for the mission, you only have to defend against two dmg types at any one time. Its not only more effective but its way cheaper. Heck, you can dual box Apocs fit this way and still be cheaper.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-09-11 20:46:20 UTC
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:
I hate everything about both of these, they are way too shiny and they try to overcome the natural limitations of the hull by slamming as much overpriced hardware into it.


I'll agree that they're "shiny," but I don't see what the problem is. The legion is generally unsuited for running L4 missions. Furthermore its most L4-friendly setup is the least suited of all to doing missions anywhere near Angel/Republic NPCs. When you combine that with with the tanking aspects of facing a potentially high percentage of explosive-heavy opponents and it really boils down tomaking the most of the sub-optimal arrangements and shield tanking. If you're going into a fight knowing you're already going to be sub-optimal I don't see a reason to not spend extra money, within some reasonable limits of course, to make it more viable, efficient, or fun.

Still, you could drop the AB to a C-Type which only costs a quarter of what an A-type does. Likewise Domination XLSBs only run 34.5m and Dread Guristas ones are only 66m or so. Either would probably provide enough tank without over-inflating the fitting requirements. Those two changes would cut off around 1.2b from the price tag and it would probably still be enough to handle most situations as long as you don't get webbed or painted worse than Tammy Fay Baker. The DG launchers, however, are probably close to mandatory unless you downgrade to a large booster, and at that point you have to consider whether or not to invest in a large Gist booster or if you can make do with a large faction booster.

IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:
I'm sure you can do the job with this, but personally you'd be stupid to attempt it. I mean a guy would have to run 100s of missions to afford it in the first place.


Based on what most posters if not nearly everyone likes to post on the forums that should easily be made up in less than 20 hours of running missions, perhaps 60 or so missions in total if done well, to buy the more expensive stuff. It's less of a time investment than training all the skills just to undock in the ship much less to properly fly it. I am, of course, not including the base price of the legion or the modules simply because they should be taken as a more or less fixed cost that's the proverbial price of doing business with any legion build.

IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:
HAMs for missions is stupid, you need range, ideally you want to be blapping targets +50 kms in L4s especially solo, you do not want them on top of you if you can avoid it. These demand a close engagement.


I'm pretty sure that the TC understands what "ideal" would be for his needs and still asked about the Legion, especially in comparison to the Tengu, for a reason. I'm working within the confines of the topic and my experiences.

IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:
My advice, use a beam fit Apoc with an active tank thats got cap stability, use drones to kill the frigates that get close and blap everything else at range. If you want to or have the ISK, invest in one of each type of Deadspace Hardener and mix and match them for the mission, you only have to defend against two dmg types at any one time. Its not only more effective but its way cheaper. Heck, you can dual box Apocs fit this way and still be cheaper.


The TC would probably be better off flying an AC abaddon than an apocalypse. It's a resonable presumption that he'll be facing enemies weak to explosive/kinetic damage and resistant to EM/thermal damage while also dishing out a sizable amount of explosive damage. The resistances would nullify the benefits of the apocalypse while the abaddon's tanking bonus would, at the least, still be useful.
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