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[TL:DR] Game physics not realistic for space flight simulation

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#21 - 2012-09-06 20:36:16 UTC
I suppose the OP also wants EVE graphics to be nothing but a single point of light with the intensity of all light in the universe…

…seems rather boring to me.
Wu Jiaqiu
#22 - 2012-09-06 20:42:33 UTC
The existance of Warp drives on the ship bend space around it. Essentially making space liquid
Uris Vitgar
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-09-06 20:47:40 UTC
If you consider only the server's information and ignore all graphical effects, eve's space combat is actually fairly realistic in the way it plays out. Ships take a while to accelerate and may fire in any direction. Massive accelerations can't be achieved but they aren't really needed- if another ship is faster than you they'll catch up anyway and warp travel is used for any distances where long periods of acceleration would be relevant. If you know how real space works you can easily assume that "banking turns" and engine trails are just there to convey a clearer picture of what is going on to the captain, in the same way that lasers and railguns draw beams in the sky.
After that the only really hard thing to swallow is dumb ship designs like the slasher which would have you spinning in forward flips whenever you light the main drive
Methesda
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-09-06 20:52:18 UTC
Uris Vitgar wrote:
...


I don't think you understand what's going on here.

Considering only the servers information... hahahahahaha

My butt takes a while to accelerate, and I can shoot it in any direction. I should probably lay off the hot and spicy noodles.

Eve is about the journey.  If you are so focused on making money, that you insist on having the tools to make it be made as autonomous and easy as possible, then you are never going to have as much fun as I will.
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#25 - 2012-09-06 20:57:57 UTC
You're correct that this has been discussed before.

I think the prevalent opinion was basically, It would be too computationally intense to calculate a full realistic physics suite, whilst being an MMO.

I would love a 6DOF camera though, totally with you there!

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#26 - 2012-09-06 20:58:21 UTC
Methesda wrote:
Uris Vitgar wrote:
...


I don't think you understand what's going on here.

Considering only the servers information... hahahahahaha

My butt takes a while to accelerate, and I can shoot it in any direction. I should probably lay off the hot and spicy noodles.

She was referring to the way the server uses vectors to handle the physical movement calculations.

Which is also the reason ships centering and leveling is impossible to avoid.
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-09-06 21:25:28 UTC
Liquid space is what EVE is all about


Also to the OP. About one every week or so somebody posts a thread like this with this level of depth of thinking and time wasting
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Arec Bardwin
#28 - 2012-09-06 22:11:23 UTC
Ogedei Khaghan wrote:

I am rather OCD ...
Congratulations. This trait was probably very valuable in the writing of such a quality post.
Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-09-06 22:14:00 UTC
tldr EVE IS LIKWID!!
Tinja Soikutsu
Perkone
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-09-06 23:36:37 UTC
@OP It's a game?

Sure we could use Newtonian Physics... and many games do. This isn't one of them. *shrugs*
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#31 - 2012-09-06 23:45:05 UTC
Eve is not a true space simulator. Never has never will. This should be common knowledge by now.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#32 - 2012-09-06 23:47:52 UTC
Good thing that this is just a video game and I should really just relax.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Agent Akari
Absolute Order XVIII
Absolute Will
#33 - 2012-09-06 23:50:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Agent Akari
What is the OP complaining about? This is a fantasy game. You are like asking people why a fairy should be real and why my boobs can't be more realistic.

Games are balanced to the players, not to reality.
Charles Baker
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-09-06 23:51:23 UTC
Ogedei Khaghan wrote:
I am sure this has been bandied about before, but I want to get in my 2 cents.

I am rather OCD when it comes to game play physics; especially when it applies to a game that is based on real world physics. I have noticed the following inconsitancies in the physics of EVE online.

Tranquility - EVE-EVE-TRANQUILITY - 7.43.412710


  1. Space does not have a maximum speed. You CAN have a maximum rate of acceleration due to mass to thrust ratios. The only limiting facter on speed in space is the ability to avoid running into space dust which would destoy a ship if the collision velocity is too high. Currently MicroWarp and afterburners are able to increase the maximum velocity and acceleration of a star ship which shows that any shielding that would be used to protect the vessel from collisions is better than these maximum speeds. In a real world setting the plow shielding would need to be upgraded to withstand micro collisions before increasing the maximum speed. Reference this.

  2. There is no UP or Down in space. There is a galactic or solar north that could be considered UP/DOWN from a graphics stand point, but this has no bearing on space flight except in the sense of magnetic fields. See this. The physics of aeronautical flight do not apply in a vacuum.

    • Thus there is no need for a ship to roll in order to change direction. That being said - assuming these ships have gravity plating only on the decks and not on the wall, it may be necessary to roll in order to redirect the Gs of the centripetal force downward. However, this is very poorly implemented; i.e. the center of mass point for the Myrmidon - a very tall ship comparatively; is somewhere in the middle of the ship. Using the theory above - this would throw all the crewmen in the upper levels into the ceiling.
    • There is no need for a spacefaring vessel to "right" itself in relation to the galactic/solar north. While this does make for some easier comprehension of game play it shows a poor comprehension of 3 dimensional movement.

  3. There is no (relative term) friction in space - see this. Case in point the density of matter is next to nothing due to it being a vacuum. Thus the only environmental force that would interact on the ship's velocity would be micro gravity from larger bodies.

    • A space ship would not stop by ceasing forward acceleration (read: Turning off its engines). It would continue on its current vector until it reversed the direction of its engines and accelerated on a reciprocal vector. Read this.
    • A space ship would not change directions and then change orientation as is the current case. If anyone has ever piloted a very heavy ship, like a freighter, you may have noticed that the ship points in the direction you want to warp in and then matches the vector after a period of time. While this is a lot closer to true physics it is not realistic. This goes back to the point above as to the reduction of velocity on one vector must be reduced while acceleration is applied to the new vector. For example: in order to make a 90 degree turn on the same plain the ship must yaw (90+45=) 135 degrees in the direction of intended travel before applying acceleration in order to scrub off the velocity on the previous vector. Doing this describes an arc connecting the previous vector with the new one.

    This could be coded by placing a fulcrum point ahead of the ship and having the back "fish-tail" or lag directionally when following this point.


As I said, this is just my 2 cents to CCP on how to make their game more realistic. I am well aware this is a game and that any or all of this post may be discarded as beyond the ability to be coded or not feasible for game play in the current environment.


Take your Physics elsewhere, the EVE-Verse operates on it's own laws.
terzslave
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-09-07 00:11:02 UTC
Space? You must be mistaken. We're in the ocean.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#36 - 2012-09-07 00:16:49 UTC
CCP will be releasing a submarine MMO in 2015, it's a simple reskin.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Methesda
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2012-09-07 00:24:01 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Methesda wrote:
Uris Vitgar wrote:
...


I don't think you understand what's going on here.

Considering only the servers information... hahahahahaha

My butt takes a while to accelerate, and I can shoot it in any direction. I should probably lay off the hot and spicy noodles.

She was referring to the way the server uses vectors to handle the physical movement calculations.

Which is also the reason ships centering and leveling is impossible to avoid.



Yes, I know what she was refering to.

My point was that it was a generalisation that does give any credence to a case for having a 'realistic' physics system in a game.

You're also doing the same thing using the word 'vectors', like it's something that has a special purpose in making a realistic space simulation! Surely the point is, is it *worth* making it realistic?

'Vectors' are also the most appropriate concept for modelling pool-game physics in Eve. Doesn't mean CCP should devote time to putting pool tables in our mackinaws.

Eve is about the journey.  If you are so focused on making money, that you insist on having the tools to make it be made as autonomous and easy as possible, then you are never going to have as much fun as I will.
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-09-07 00:29:04 UTC
- Been playing for X years and never noticed
- No ****/who cares?
- Insert backstory/technobabble justification here
- Your momma

Pick whichever answer you like.
Herr Hammer Draken
#39 - 2012-09-07 00:48:26 UTC
Ogedei Khaghan wrote:

As I said, this is just my 2 cents to CCP on how to make their game more realistic. I am well aware this is a game and that any or all of this post may be discarded as beyond the ability to be coded or not feasible for game play in the current environment.


You answered your entire post. It is all discarded because it is not feasible for game play. Imagine combat when you are flying faster than most weapons can shoot. You pass a guy he fires a missile at you and it is traveling at 1/4 your speed. You fire a hybrid round back at him but you are already out of range. In fact you can not get in range. One second you are too far away to hit him, the next second updates and you are too far past him. At the speed you are traveling at you can not turn around or stop in under 30 minutes. Then another 30 minute burn to get back to comabt area. But then you are going too fast again and what maybe you slowed up this time but he was burning toward you the entire time. So your combined closing speed is now just as fast or faster than what it was before. Zip right past he fires missles which never make it to your position and you never have a second in which your guns are in range to fire at him. etc... real physics just like you want.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
The Chronophage
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-09-07 01:11:08 UTC
Somebody please introduce the OP to The Secret World Online. I hear that game has great real world physics and reveals to us all the lies that the government has been shoving down our throats. The truth is out there yo.