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[PROPOSAL] Unlearning skills.
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Krusty Amarr
VokoV
#21 - 2012-07-20 19:22:45 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Krusty Amarr wrote:
Good sir. Biomassing a toon and "just start training what you want." is very much the same. This whole point of this feature is to not waste the time you have invested in training the skills you want so you can play. I believe EVE is already painful enough that you have to wait for a few months before you get to PVP,PVE or BUILD something properly. Which i totally love about the game but making a mistake realizing that mistake and spending all the time ALL over again to be able to PVE is a bit painful for newer even midlevel sp people.

Unless you completely forego and amount of combat skills--unlikely for a new player, as ship combat is the first thing you're shown--then biomassing your first toon is throwing out combat skills. You almost certainly acquired support and fitting skills that will apply to ANY ship you could fly. Biomassing a toon because you picked the skills is just repeating training you've already done. If the OP has biomassed four toons, that is probably MONTHS of training time thrown out. Just keep the skills you have, train new ones, and carry on.


I totally agree is months of training time thrown own. This is because as a newer player i had no direction everything was on the table the tutorials sucked and FORCED me to do everything. I thought that was how the game was supposed to be played. I learned industrial and combat skills and tried to make it work. But when as you advance and learn more about the game you realized that you would have been better of with a focused skill training. I am not saying that the previous skills you trained are TOTALLY useless they are just something that you wanna get rid of or something that you realize your not interested in. OK i admit i may have done a mistake biomassing the toons but it was horrible that the skills were in total disarray. Made me feel bad that i couldnt fly a kestrel properly but i can fit an Osprey with miners. Why so because Industrial tutorial asked me to mine so and so. Then security tutorial suddenly asked me to kill something but i couldnt fit anything in my kestrel. I real world example of how new players get frustrated.
Tidurious
Blatant Alt Corp
#22 - 2012-07-25 10:48:30 UTC
OP - You are a dumbass. You are asking for either a SP remap or an attribute remap with no penalties - go **** yourself!!! For the vast majority, players don't want this - go screw yourself! This would be game breaking. No SP for re-maps!!!
z Flint
z Mining Corp
#23 - 2012-07-25 18:52:46 UTC
Can't support this proposal.
Aren Valle
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-08-29 23:08:48 UTC
Unlearning skills == Bong hits
Tidurious
Blatant Alt Corp
#25 - 2012-08-31 23:37:05 UTC
By the way: Unlearning is called forgetting, dumb***.

Horrible idea, biomass your toon.
Kaelie Onren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-09-06 16:40:20 UTC
You know you are a vet when you have seen this proposal resurrected and rehashed at least 3 times.

Just putting my friendly 'no' vote (again) its just like a character bazaar but worse. Will likely spawn people who play 1 year as a certain 'class' then switch up entirely to another one a year later. That essentially 'cheats' the skill system out of another years worth of your subscription money and effort (assuming you take 2 years to skill up both classes)
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#27 - 2012-09-06 16:48:13 UTC
Terrible, terrible idea.

Terrible.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Kaelie Onren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-09-06 17:03:34 UTC
Krusty Amarr wrote:


I totally agree is months of training time thrown own. This is because as a newer player i had no direction everything was on the table the tutorials sucked and FORCED me to do everything. I thought that was how the game was supposed to be played. I learned industrial and combat skills and tried to make it work. But when as you advance and learn more about the game you realized that you would have been better of with a focused skill training. I am not saying that the previous skills you trained are TOTALLY useless they are just something that you wanna get rid of or something that you realize your not interested in. OK i admit i may have done a mistake biomassing the toons but it was horrible that the skills were in total disarray. Made me feel bad that i couldnt fly a kestrel properly but i can fit an Osprey with miners. Why so because Industrial tutorial asked me to mine so and so. Then security tutorial suddenly asked me to kill something but i couldnt fit anything in my kestrel. I real world example of how new players get frustrated.


Maybe that means you should bug CCP to fix the tutorials, or otherwise make the new player experience better. Not ask for a cheat to compensate for a bad tutorial. I think team Five 0 is doing good work on this front recently.

But in the big picture of things is ... the SP you end up putting into skills after running all the tutorials... is what? like less than 1-2mil? That not that much wasted time.

Also I didn't find that any skills learned in the Security Tutorial Agent was wasted. I'm curious to know which ones were wasted and would have been better spent making you fit a kestrel properly.
You shouldn't assume that just because you took the indy tutorial, then you should be prepared for the security tutorial. They are distinct and independent. Remember that some people choose to skip some tutors entirely. (if they wanted to, say, be just a grunt) maybe you should have done that instead of wasting your time and SP with the indy tutorial.
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#29 - 2012-09-06 17:13:25 UTC
I think you need to live with whatever ****ty decision you've made. It's called a "consequence."

Now ****ing deal with it.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#30 - 2012-09-06 17:27:43 UTC
No....

1.) If I can unlearn a few million skills every year, I can save them and instantly ship into anything I desire at a moments notice.... This is NOT a good thing.... Hell, 700k sp will allow me to train a brand new race from no-ships to Frig IV, Cruiser IV, and BS IV..... It's another 400k for Frig V, 1m for Cruiser V, and its 1.6m for BS V.

2.) I can train Precep will skills all day long, and then untrain them to pick up nice leadership skills without remapping to charisma, or whatever. This basically allows me to earn those pesky specialty skills 55% faster.... and 2m SP is enough to pick up four basic fleet bonuses to V, or two warfare link bonuses to V.

3.) Just because you aren't utilizing a skill now, doesn't mean you didn't gain benefit from that skill in the past.... so you're essentially reaping the rewards of your skillpoints more than once.... Also, just because you don't use a skill now doesn't mean you wont use it in the future.... People change careers all the time in EvE..... and having a wide variety of skills keeps doors open!
Wilhelm Riley
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-09-06 23:09:01 UTC
While it sounds like an attractive idea, all it really does is cater to the impatient or lazy. Just keep the skills you have and train new ones t hat you want. In a few years you'll WISH you had something new to train.
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#32 - 2012-09-08 20:37:09 UTC
As others have said, this has come up before. I have a very complete answer. In fact, the thread title was changed to "Rescinded" some time afterward. >:}

Obsidian wrote:
So, let me train an optimal skill, say "whoops" and insta-train something else. Nope.
How about I do that twice or thrice and have everything, just not all at the same time. Sorry.
What if the skill is a prerequisite for something else? Problematic.
Maybe there should be a complicated penalty system? Hope you don't change your mind back later.

You live with your mistakes in Eve. You made money off of those mining skills. They served their purpose and you might need them again. Player rarely regret the earnings used to buy/build battleships that they mined for, but they want the skill points back. It just doesn't work that way.

The learning and connection skills were a special case. Those were removed from the game. The game did not need them anymore. The fact that you could reallocate them to inefficient attribute-set skills was a perk. Don't get used to it. You may not be asking for that directly, but there is no simple way to prevent it.

As for new characters, mistakes will be made and its the penalties that make you learn. I made plenty when I was new. In the long run, the time spent on the odd skill will be used for something later or is drop in the bucket. I will say that I think Eve should come with some basic skill plans... oh wait... those are certificates.

In short, there are a lot of holes in your idea for exploit. I understand the desire, but condemn the notion.
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-09-08 21:17:56 UTC
no because
train skills-> want to change entire eve lifestyle-> remaps skills and suddenly instead of max industry/science skills i can fly super caps.


The only way for this to work at all is for there to be a remap in which you lose something like 50% of the SP that you remap, so a x5 skill being remapped would yield about 500k SP ( lvl 5 of that skill is about 1mil SP) this means anyone remapping this skill would have lost about 12 days of training. and flipping professions would have a very very large penalty.
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