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Separating gangs, and fighting them
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Denuo Secus
#1 - 2012-09-02 20:10:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Denuo Secus
Hi,

when fighting solo against multiple opponents, splitting them is key. This can be done in two ways: on grid or off grid.

On grid means I stay on grid and separate them by maneuvering and speed. Once they are spread out 50km and more I can fight them one by one. Best case ofc ;)

Off grid means to separate them by warping or jumping on gates - also by using aggro mechanics.

Both can be done in a brawling, pure damage ship OR a kiting, damage projecting ship. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

I think kiting works better against experienced, disciplined gangs which cannot be split alot. On the other hand my damage is lower with kiting fittings. I need more time for single opponents, which is a risk. I also had problems to finish them off at all, since I cannot go close to hold them while pursued by several opponents. So often they pull range and just warp off once they enter hull.

Fighting separated targets with a max damage, brawling ships can work nice if I have a bit more time with each target. But it's more risky I guess. Once things happen I didn't see coming (ECM, neuts, bait tanks) I simply cannot disengage anymore. But a big advantage here is: once I tackled a target he cannot run anymore. Question is if I'm fast enough to deal with him.

My question: what kind of fitting/tactic do you prefer? And why?

Please note: this is not about kiting vs. brawling in general. I know brawling is better in most 1 vs. 1 fights. This is about 1 vs. many.

Edit/addition: reason for asking is...I had limited success with kiting bigger gangs on grid. But when I killed some of them it was mostly because they made a mistake. I don't want to base my success on mistakes others make. So start to think kiting small blobs could be a dead-end somehow. At least as soon as I fight exerienced pilots. Could brawling be a better option here?
Katie Frost
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-09-02 23:41:21 UTC
A lot of factors would determine what a better set-up is when fighting outnumbered - but in general terms, my preference would be kiting.

I look at it from a more psychological perspective. The enemy will want to commit to kill you because they know that they outnumber you, which in turn increases their likelihood of making a mistake. As long as you remain in charge of the situation and are able to dictate engagement terms you can get the advantage over you opponents. They will be more likely to ignore clear signs that the fight is not going their way in order to hold tackle on you.

Also, by kite-fitting your ship you are able to disengage when the fight is not really going you way. This may seem 'cowardly', but since you are engaging superior numbers, I don't think that anyone would begrudge you warping out.

Brawler fits do work, especially with the blaster boats when you can bring the pain quickly; and again your opponents are more likely to dive in due to overconfidence. However, for me this would be the less preferable method. Unless you are fighting inexperienced pilots, very low numbers (2-4) or have a megatank that can allow you to de-aggress - as you mentioned, once you are engaged - you are in it for the duration.

Again, both setups can and do work; and based on the situation, one would be superior to the other; however, for a quick-pick I would always have to select kiting.
Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation
#3 - 2012-09-03 07:21:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Lock out
it's impossible to win against 1vs many if they don;t make any mistake. If you are in a ship that can kill many and they took the fight (ex : triple rep myrm vs 6 frigs) , they've already made a mistake.

So yeah... your best bet is to keep trying to provoke them to make mistakes and create a scenario where at least when they don't make any it's a draw. In that regard kyting is better than using agro mecchanics to split them since in that situation if they don;t make any mistake they cover both sides of the gate and you are p much f***ed.

And generally speaking brawling is balls deep, there is no guarantee when you think you'll fight a blob that they are not just bait for a mega blob, in which case you explode. When kyting, if a mega blob shows up, gtfo, move on.

Another thing to be said about solo brawling is that it's usually relying on active tanking of some sort, which looks great in eft, but as soon as someone brings a neut to the party, you are royally screwed. Except ASBs ofc, but brawling solo in shield setups is notoriously hard because of lacking mids for webs and such.
Dracan02
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#4 - 2012-09-04 03:29:04 UTC
Against multiple opponents its about disengaging after combat, if you cant you will die. so speed is very important.
The other factor is time, the longer your in combat the harder getting out in one piece will be. so the second factor is gank.

if you can get in, kill and get out you can take bigger groups.
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#5 - 2012-09-05 01:09:11 UTC
Damn near killed a Vagabond on a gate the other day after he shot at my Punisher. I guess the lesson of that cool story is whatever style you choose, stick to it, and don't try to brawl in a kiting ship.
Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#6 - 2012-09-05 03:00:03 UTC
As someone who constantly has people try to seperate their gangs, i'm not really sure how to deal with them.

If you keep your gang together and ignore them, you're "bad blobbers who are afraid of a single person" by the pilot attempting to seperate the gang when we refuse to allow ourselves to be seperated, or just don't have the right tools to kill the solo pilot.

On the other hand, if we do successfull manage to kill the solo pilot, we're just "bad blobbers who needed an entire gang or Rapiers to handle a solo pilot in a dessie/frig".

n00bed no matter what you do.

The moar you cry the less you pee
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#7 - 2012-09-05 03:40:27 UTC
The correct answer is 'Both.' You don't want to become a creature of habit. Predictability in a warzone is fatal. For example, I may kill someone in a plex in my rail Catalyst. The person I kill will report me and my fit as intel. If I can I'll sneak off to my POS and jump into my Nuetron Cat (with the same name). The next person who comes after me will get a surprise.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#8 - 2012-09-05 18:26:20 UTC
You can kill only enemies that does some mistake.
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
#9 - 2012-09-06 11:48:41 UTC
Lock out wrote:

Another thing to be said about solo brawling is that it's usually relying on active tanking of some sort, which looks great in eft, but as soon as someone brings a neut to the party, you are royally screwed. .


Only noobs forget to add neuts to projected effects when they test stuff in EFT. Bear
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#10 - 2012-09-06 12:57:37 UTC
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:
Lock out wrote:

Another thing to be said about solo brawling is that it's usually relying on active tanking of some sort, which looks great in eft, but as soon as someone brings a neut to the party, you are royally screwed. .


Only noobs forget to add neuts to projected effects when they test stuff in EFT. Bear


This game is full of noobs Big smile
Jadzia Narys
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-09-20 13:46:14 UTC
Honestly I enjoy the kiting Cynabal... somewhere around 500dps and 2500 m/s. Its super fast, great tracking, amazing speed, decent DPS.

The thing is you can only take out frigs/dessies in a decent amount of time. However, a good cynabal pilot can be very very frustrating to catch.