EVE General Discussion

Nullsec industry should be buffed in capacity into being able to nullsec's needs
Highsec industry should be nerfed in capacity into being able to handle highsec's needs.
Maybe make a capital strip miner for a rorqual to encourage 0.0/low mining.

Funny, I thought it was to get people to move out of NPC corps.

Also christ, stop saying "iskies".


Actually, the only mechanic which isn't strictly there, is the "manufacturing cost based on item cost" (instead we do have the manufacturing installation cost and the running costs, but they're so small as to be negiligible), and I'll readily admit that was a bit over the top, but it was over the top to counter-balance what I can only hope was a troll post.

The problem I have with his post is that he's showing absolutely no regard for balance or sandboxyness.

In hisec, there's very little risk, you can easily autopilot freighters full of minerals etc around, you have tons of resources at your fingertips, and compared to nullsec, almost limitless manufacturing ability for very, very little money. In nullsec, the most common problem to actually building up an empire is that there's almost no industrial capacity as it is, and when a whole region can't compete with single systems in hisec, and this squarely because of serious game mechanics-induced limits, it should be pretty obvious what needs to be done.

As for all the mechanics for costs of doing anything in hisec, if CCP is actually worried about inflation, hisec would be the one place where they should go and up the costs. It likely wouldn't have to be as drastic as my "minimum 10% refinery tax" etc, as the hisec economy is huge, but I see absolutely no problem with slightly increasing costs in hisec across the board. After all, the people in hisec are receiving a huge security net and a vast convenience net in the form of an absolutely huge mound of various raw resources which are readily available to everyone. I'm sure the hisec empires would want to recoup the costs they sink into keeping all this running and secure, and these costs are rising steadily with the population.

You want to live somewhere where these costs are lower? You've got lowsec, NPC nullsec and conquerable nullsec for that, and if you're ambitious you can even choose to build your own empire in nullsec where all such taxes go to your pocket, to do with as you see fit.


Actually, it's posts like Kitty Bear's which makes the case for why hisec carebears shouldn't come near anything related to eve game design, because it shows a clear and distinct lack for both game balance, and the concept of "sandbox".

Hisec is where people should go for a safe, low effort and semi-profitable game experience. This should come with a cost, and it currently doesn't, not really. I suppose lowsec should have lower costs, since concord etc is less involved in protecting those areas, whereas conquerable nullsec should be entirely at the mercy of whomever owns the space. And, surprisingly, it is at the mercy of whomever owns the space, the problem with nullsec right now is that no matter how much we want to build up our infrastructure to the point where we can even begin to compete with (or let alone supercede) hisec, we can't. We're limited by the rules of the sandbox from making an empire in nullsec which would be able to compete with hisec, and as such a vast majority of everyone in nullsec do all their moneymaking, production and stocking up in hisec.

This is not as it should be, the imbalance between high, low and null are too vast in the favor of hisec. Nullsec needs to be released from a lot of the restrictions which currently restrain it, and hisec really does need to have some costs increased.

Rats, Roime, don't make me stop this thread. I will, if you two don't stop acting like children. I'll stop this thread right now, and you can WALK all the way back to GD.

You're coming at the problem from the wrong angle. 0.0 industry doesn't need more safety it needs more flexibility, capacity and resources.

I produce Drakes in batches of 20 once every couple of months in Deklein (probably the most active 0.0 market) and it can take weeks for my mineral buy orders to fill (and even then its mostly people jumping in compressed lowends rather than mining them). Once thats done I have the challenge of fetching 4-5 jump freighters full of materials from potentially 3-4 jumps out of my production station (I could limit my buy orders but that'll take another couple of weeks to fill). Then I'm faced with a couple of days wait for one of the 10 manufacturing slots in the station.

Alternatively I could compress minerals in empire and jump them to a 0.0 refinery, reprocess them there and do the 4-5 jumps in my 6 billion isk pinata to my manufacturing station but then I need an empire production chain as well as a 0.0 one and at that point why bother for the 3-5m profit I get selling a drake. I might as well just buy some in Jita and jump them up pre-built.

Or I guess I could whip out a hulk and do some mining but why should I have to do that? Mining is terrible.

For 0.0 industry to thrive we need to de-couple stations from sov so we can have more than one station per system. We need some way of producing our own lowend minerals in a way that is close to the profit produced by highends to encourage people to actually mine them. And we need more production capacity in player built outposts so that production can keep up with the increased number of players in 0.0 (probably more research too but idgaf).

Well CCP are currently working on a POS revamp so let's hope that it alleviate some of the current issues... And i didn't know that you could only have one station per system. That is kind of a ridiculous mechanic.

However, if your current null sec market hub was a safer place to be, don't you think people would then jump in their freighters and fill your orders quicker? Obviously there would need to an intensive for them to do that (e.g. more profit) and someone would probably need to provide a safe jump bride network.

I'm just speaking hypothetically here so don't rage please

Huh? Where does the "high security market hub", "NPC and player security" and "gate guns" come into the picture? The problem with nullsec industry has absolutely nothing to do with a high security market hub, npc/player security, gate guns or anything of that sort, I've no idea why you would even think this would have any sort of effect whatsoever.

The problem is that the reality of today's nullsec industry is that it's a complete cockstab. You have to setup one system to be the "refinery system", one system to be the "office system", one to be the research system (or you setup POSes, I suppose), one or more to be the "manufacturing systems", so in effect you can end up with a constellation of, say, 50-100 manufacturing slots.

Compare that to f.ex itamo, where there are 11 stations with 50 manufacturing slots each, i.e. 550 slots in one system, all of which have reprocessing in them, meaning you can easily mine into the same station where you do manufacturing. This means that in hisec all you have to do to be a large-scale manufacturer is buy a large freighter and maybe an orca for the more valuable goods, haul it 1-3 jumps (or mine it into the same station you're in, although you probably can't mine even close to enough to actually fulfill even the appetite of a single slot), refine/build in one of a billion stations, and haul to market.

Currently, it is vastly more efficient (both isk-wise, effort-wise and time-wise) to just build or buy in jita and ship it all up to whereever you live. There is no manufacturing market in nullsec, apart from amongst particularly anal guys who would probably feel at home in CVA, and loves to RP some sort of local manufacturer, oooooor you're a supercarrier/titan manufacturer.

how bout we nuke low and null instead? just vaporize it with very large super nova bowling balls.

Ok constructive criticism....

One of the worst ideas I have ever heard.

Doesn't sound like a bad idea to me, how else are you going to make it better to mine in dangerous areas without either doing something like this or nerfing highsec mining (which is the same thing)?