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Barge Fairy Tale

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betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3341 - 2012-09-06 08:27:21 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Buck Futz wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:


So nerf our yield but leave the hit points alone.



Unfortunately, that doesn't work. Obviously. Turn on your brain for a second.

Why? With your half baked solution (AKA; take anything but AFK mode+EHP!!!)
.....lower the Mack's yield and you end up with this:

Yield: Hulk>Skiff>Mack
Cargo: Mack>Skiff>Hulk
EHP: Skiff>Mack>Hulk

Hulk at 1-3-3.
Mack is 1-2-3
and Skiff is 1-2-2.

Hulk remains the worst in 2 of the 3 categories.

The simplest way to do it is swap the EHP of the Hulk with the Mackinaw.
Then each Exhumer is.... best in one category, 2nd in another, and worst in the last.

Besides, its elegant: the 'easymode' temptation to AFK mine is balanced with higher vulnerability to ganking.

Still, I'll give you credit, Yokai: Its clear you've accepted our premise that the Exhumers are badly balanced and need a revision.







My recent experience was not at all favorable toward this plan.

In the systems I normally mine in there have been lots of retrievers mining but they mostly just take what they need and leave.
The belts always have the ore in them I need or I can find a belt in system that has what I need when I need it.
But recent events a big mining corp moved in with mutiple Orca's and lots of Hulks. They strip mine every belt in system then move on to the next system and then the next. In 5 hours or so they clean out 4 + systems around me of every thing.

These are not retrievers or Macks doing this. They are fleets of Hulks and Orca's. So if ever I wanted to gank a miner those Hulks have my vote as they are like a locust. By all means leave the Hulk as the easiest miner to gank.

I admit I am looking at this from my perspective. But then so is everybody that posts. If they say different they are lying.


Most peoples perspective is that they want to discourage solo/afk, yours is to discourage teamplay. Sounds like the miners in your area are working as designed to the point where there is a resource contention.

You shouldn't gank them, just wardec them, they are clearly stealing YOUR ore :-)

I'm liking the 1-2-3 argument. probably the HP on on mack and hulk should be swapped. However the consequences of doing that are a buff to the yield of the high yield ship, which can now fit 2 MLU without need for a tank.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#3342 - 2012-09-06 12:26:24 UTC
betoli wrote:
Most peoples perspective is that they want to discourage solo/afk, yours is to discourage teamplay. Sounds like the miners in your area are working as designed to the point where there is a resource contention.

You shouldn't gank them, just wardec them, they are clearly stealing YOUR ore :-)

Yeah, that should impress on them the importance of using NPC corps.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3343 - 2012-09-06 17:32:17 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:


So nerf our yield but leave the hit points alone.


Then the skiff would still be a pointless ship.
Pipa Porto
#3344 - 2012-09-06 18:02:34 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
And let nullbears print ISK while logged off...


Where's this offline isk faucet you're imagining?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3345 - 2012-09-06 18:08:50 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
And let nullbears print ISK while logged off...


Where's this offline isk faucet you're imagining?


I'm assuming moon goo. Something we have been fighting to get changed for a long time now.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#3346 - 2012-09-06 18:23:06 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
And let nullbears print ISK while logged off...


Where's this offline isk faucet you're imagining?


I'm assuming moon goo. Something we have been fighting to get changed for a long time now.

And it isn't even a faucet.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3347 - 2012-09-06 18:34:36 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
And let nullbears print ISK while logged off...


Where's this offline isk faucet you're imagining?


I'm assuming moon goo. Something we have been fighting to get changed for a long time now.

And it isn't even a faucet.

People seem to conveniently forget that the ISK we get from moon mining was already in the economy.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3348 - 2012-09-06 19:10:36 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
People seem to conveniently forget that the ISK we get from moon mining was already in the economy.


And it's different from mining?
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#3349 - 2012-09-06 20:00:08 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:


So nerf our yield but leave the hit points alone.


Then the skiff would still be a pointless ship.



I agree. I will admit after arguing with you guys you've helped me see the issue I was blind to.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3350 - 2012-09-06 20:33:13 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
People seem to conveniently forget that the ISK we get from moon mining was already in the economy.


And it's different from mining?

Yes, because believe it or not we incur significantly more risk.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3351 - 2012-09-06 20:37:48 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yes, because believe it or not we incur significantly more risk.


I meant the part where you think miners print isk.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#3352 - 2012-09-06 20:38:59 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yes, because believe it or not we incur significantly more risk.


I meant the part where you think miners print isk.

Who in this thread said such a thing?
Pipa Porto
#3353 - 2012-09-06 20:41:23 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
People seem to conveniently forget that the ISK we get from moon mining was already in the economy.


And it's different from mining?



Nobody's said mining is an ISK faucet.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#3354 - 2012-09-06 20:44:36 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
People seem to conveniently forget that the ISK we get from moon mining was already in the economy.


And it's different from mining?


Let me tell you about this thing called insurance

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#3355 - 2012-09-06 23:12:19 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
People seem to conveniently forget that the ISK we get from moon mining was already in the economy.

And it's different from mining?

Nobody's said mining is an ISK faucet.

Tech is evil and needs to be nerfed even more, is what they were trying to go for I guess?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3356 - 2012-09-06 23:19:18 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yes, because believe it or not we incur significantly more risk.


I meant the part where you think miners print isk.

Who in this thread said such a thing?


use crrl-f and type

"And let nullbears print ISK while logged off..."
Pipa Porto
#3357 - 2012-09-06 23:57:28 UTC
betoli wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yes, because believe it or not we incur significantly more risk.


I meant the part where you think miners print isk.

Who in this thread said such a thing?


use crrl-f and type

"And let nullbears print ISK while logged off..."


Try taking a look at who posted that little lie.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3358 - 2012-09-07 02:37:48 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
People seem to conveniently forget that the ISK we get from moon mining was already in the economy.


And it's different from mining?


Let me tell you about this thing called insurance

While I'm not sure the ratio of fully insurable tech one hulls to other hulls used in nullsec combat defending moons, I'd think that in an environment where a far larger scale of ship loss is occurring and in which neither party is forfeiting their ability to receive insurance would generate a far greater influx of isk from insurance payouts.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#3359 - 2012-09-07 05:17:58 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
People seem to conveniently forget that the ISK we get from moon mining was already in the economy.


And it's different from mining?


Let me tell you about this thing called insurance

While I'm not sure the ratio of fully insurable tech one hulls to other hulls used in nullsec combat defending moons, I'd think that in an environment where a far larger scale of ship loss is occurring and in which neither party is forfeiting their ability to receive insurance would generate a far greater influx of isk from insurance payouts.

Well some people like their AHACs, T3 crusiers, faction/pirate ships....

But the good old drake gets a good chunk back from insurance. Always nice when the magic spacepolice helps make it easier to afford losing ships.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#3360 - 2012-09-07 14:23:26 UTC
Ok so if you bring down the Mackinaws base hitpoints to that of the Hulks of close to it, what about giving the Mackinaw say 40 more CPU to make up for it. Would that be an even trade off?