Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Intro: Whereas the tier3 BCs are powerful and perform decent fleet-related or solo gank, snipe or kite roles already, the Myrmidon, Harbinger, Drake and Hurricane lack a tech II variant. It has probably been discussed before, but hopefully my idea is original enough, practical and gamechanging! Please read fully before adding a comment. I would like some constructive posting.Shipclass from here on codenamed "dufflebag" or Tactical Support Battlecruiser for convenience.

Lore: with a combination of interdiction nullifying technology and breakthroughs in the field of warp/jump technology
(through studying polarity on wormholes), a group of gallente and caldari scientists working for Sisters of eve sold this new technology to all races in an effort to minimize battles and the slaughter of pure subcap fleets by capital blob warfare, giving all entities a more fair chance of participating in null-security space riches and combat. Of course, the technology would still be ill-developed and the ships and their modules would be suited for specific roles only. A positive side-effect of these technological advancements in targeting systems, cynosural field effects and warpdrive mechanics on said ships would be reduced signature radii.

Proposal: The tech II variants of those BC's would perform the role of carrying an inverse forcefield (comparable to a POS forcefield) that prohibits warping in and jumping into, but allows for anyone inside to burn out, warp out or jump out (activation similar to bubbling from a HIC mixed with cynosural field). All targeting and friendly or hostile effects can be applied within the bubble without restrictions when it is up, but the parties within the bubble can't get help (not a single effect even) from outside forces during the activation timer of the bubble. So basically boosts from outside the bubble don't work inside the bubble either, but since that will be changed soon anyway, it's not really a problem.

Motives for implementation:
- Anti-blob quality: Wormhole PVP is becoming more and more attractive to all players because of the mediating quality of masslimitations on the wormholes, which plays a role in the max fleet size and their setups. My intention with this concept for new tech II BCs, and the module that goes with them, is to approach the w-style of pvp in k-space by the use of creating semi-controllable environments.
- Fair fights: Adding to the first point, players are looking to test their skill in balanced combat, but rarely get a chance to. This is one of the reasons why RvB alliance is such a hype. Again, this concept would give people the chance to do exactly that.
- Target painting: The notable decrease in signature radius to the ships and the effect of the module gives FC's a good reason to utilize target painting in small to midsized engagements, perhaps even dedicated painting boats could be assigned.
- Creating another shiptype is always a good thing, more options, more stuff to build and to destroy.
- FC ship. While the command ships are a good class, FC's hardly ever use them as it would mean crippling their fleet if they were to lose both their FC (if podded too) AND their fleet booster. I can imagine this new ship class to usurp the role of 'FC ship', which may or may not have to be fitted to suit its role.

Optional: Black ops boost: If covert cynosural fields would be the only way to still get into such a forcefield, this would boost proper black ops usage.

Module:

Possible names and info:

Name suggestions or inspiration.
- Enclosed Combat Enforcer I (tech I)
- Inverse Warp Disruption Field Generator I (tech I)
- Tactical Field Generator I (tech I)
- 'Cocoon' Tactical Forcefield Generator (meta)
- 'Atrium' Tactical Forcefield Generator (meta)
- 'Hermit' Tactical Forcefield Generator (meta)
- 'Tartarus' Tactical Forcefield Generator I (meta)

Module (and effect) information

- Prevents target locks (and hopefully, if mechanics allow, boosts) on targets within the forcefield from outside the forcefield.
- Can only be fitted on 'Tactical Support Battlecruiser' class ships.
- Has a duration of 5 minutes to start with, with a 20min reactivation timer (5cycle, 10forcefield, 5window). At the end of the cycle, the forcefield would be generated (similar to a cyno, being unlockable, but visible in system)
- The module can't be activated within xxx [radius from forcefield + skill modifier] km of another forcefield (wether from a tower or other inverse forcefield module), as it would cause a catastrophic anomalous event.
- A ship leaving the forcefield would lose target locks.
- cynosural fields can be lit inside the forcefield, but won't be able to jump ships to it when the forcefield is still up.
- covert cynosural fields may or may not be unaffected by the forcefield, as this might be a way to boost black ops usage. Please comment on this!
- When activated, this module acts like triage or siege, preventing remote assistance to be given to the host ship and rendering the host ship immobile!
- Decreases the signature radius of the host ship by 25% (to boost tank because it will get primaried a lot and can't receive logi), and an additional 25% depending on host ship skill.
- Deploys a 50km radius bubble, with "skillbook x" (ranki 6 or higher) increasing its range by 10km per skill level (so at max, a 200km diameter bubble) and "skillbook y" decreasing it's cap usage by 5% per level.
- Requires 80 CPU and 150 PG, takes 2000 cap for a 120s cycle (or ~17 cap per second). I've checked the numbers and the cpu/pg looks balanced on what I imagine to be the tech II BC stats. In terms of
cap stability, with all skills at V or focusing on cap
boosting/recharge on the spare slots, all tech II tier 2 BC variants
should be able to handle it properly.

More Information

* The price/materials of such a tech II BC would be similar (slightly higher) to the price of a command ship.

* The price/materials of such a module and it's blueprint would be similar (slightly higher) to the price of a covert jump portal generator and it's blueprint. (!) To fit the lore and make inverse forcefields not that easily accessible modules, it would be nice if the item was a tech III module, requiring at least some part of it's manufacturing materials to be sleeper loot or salvage.

Last two suggestions:

1. The module used by the tier 2 tech II BC's might or might not use scripts, I have yet to see good arguments. Perhaps warp core stabs or other modules like interdiction nullifying subsystems might be unaffected by this type of module. Or maybe the microwarpdrives that recently got added can play a role in this, as it would be approx. the same range of the bubble radius.

2. If at any stage in development, this shipclass appears to be overpowered, I suggest disallowing AB's to be fitted on them, forcing them to use MWD's (with sig bloom) or be extremely immobile while not in forcefield mode.

EDITS/NOTES:

* Range scripts 10/20/40 with different cap or timer stats
* Go out of the bubble through burning/warping only
* No possibility of entering the bubble (still have to discuss covert cyno jumps as an exception)
* Notify message upon activation of said forcefield within same grid
* Can be used over WHs
* Can be used in null/w-space, not in hi- or lowsec.
* Can't envelope a station or gate, but can be put next to those.

So, what happens in the bubble cannot be affected from outside the bubble. Kind of a private party.

You mentioned no warping in.
Does this mean ships warping to a point in the bubble are stopped at it's border, and have to slow boat to get past the barrier?
Or are they completely locked out?

1.) I missed the long activation timer.., really, really restricts the use of this module... And it was unclear if those inside the bubble could target those outside the bubble.... Thanks for clearing that up...

2.) Cap booster and cap transfers.... you can now activate it fairly easily.... although with the 5 minute activation timer this isn't something you activate on the fly... you do it in a preplanned manner when things are not changing much...

3.) I striked out POS because of your Force Field overlay issue, and now limiting it to not cover gates and/or station undocks really, really limits this to an expensive supercap safety net... Can it be used over WH's?

4.) I don't think you understand what I mean as a supercap safety net.... If I want to deploy my 30 man SC fleet, I cyno them into the bubble center right before this bubble activates.... I use the sueprcaps to take down a structure or rep up a structure.... I basically have 10 minutes of time where no ships can warp in on top of me, and no ships can cyno onto me... If an enemy tries to, they'll land 100 km's from me, and needs to power to me to tackle me.... Add two 100 km web rapiers, and it becomes unrealistic for anyone to get to my supercap fleet before they can warp away to safety... It's essentually an expensive supercap safety net!!!

And no bubble is 100 km's in radius....

I just don't see the point of this module.... the long siege timer and activation timer pretty much makes it a static item.... Do you see warp bubbles deployed on the field during a battle??? Of course not... because they take a long time to setup and deploy... they are static obstacles that any competent gang can move around and avoid, although they do have an initial wtf factor when people aren't initially expecting them.... bubblers (hics & dics) have an enormous tactical use, as they can be deployed instantly and dynamically.... Your module really lacks the dynamic effect, it's makes an expensive, immobile target, and it's area of effect is very awkward to balance...

It has three major effects:
1.) It's biggest value is as an anti-cyno field.... but it can't be deployed quickly like a cyno to actually stop a hotdrop, it's just a preemptive keep your cyno away from my fleet module.... Oh, and it's restrictions severely limit its use near gates, stations, and POS's, which is where 95% of fleet battles happen....

2.) It also creates a safety zone against warp ins.... either it creates a really big zone, where most fleets will have plenty of time to get safe before an enemy can mess with them, or it creates a really small zone, where it can be abused by short range fleets.

3.) It creates a wall, where people can go in and out of it to break locks and get safe... I really don't know about this.... and if you can use this in highsec and even lowsec, I can think of a few ways to abuse this!!

While I don't think this is particularly broken, i don't see it's value... I don't see the big picture of what you want to make... or at least, the bits and pieces I do see don't really mesh well....

I could see only option 1, where ships can't cyno in, and you can't cyno out.... and then have a very nice range.... but this is hard to balance....

Or I could see option 2, where ships can't warp in, and you can't warp out... which is just a bubble.... and I think if you created a 100 km warp disruptor bubble we'd break something!!!

As for option 3.... I'm not a fan of grid fu games, nor pos shield games....

I have read it carefully and i find the idea compelling in part, but only because I support symmetry in effects... e.g. if you can destabilize energy and drain it, why not also be able to fill your target's cap.

BUT

Other than generating an anti-interdiction bubble effect (by basically stabilizing the warp medium matrix), I cannot see the other side effects making any sense whatsoever. I am all for cool mechanics and symmetry of the Eve universe; but I'm not in favor of creating arbitrary mechanics that only turn this into more and more of a dumb arbitrary game.

Fights in Eve are not fair, and any weapon always benefits the organization that has more members that can use it. Other than that it's up to the solo and small gangs to be able to pick their fights properly. I don't think we should go anywhere out of our way to eliminate these truths, other than to create more covert op options to support guerrilla style combat. But that is another story.

Regarding your anti-interdiction field however, i do like the concept over all and I also think it would be interesting, but re-stabilization would probably not be a cheap process, this may also prevent the ship causing this effect from warping at all. The effects of the stabilizing bubble would probably be more localized and therefore would probably be smaller than your average HIC bubble.

You've been changing a lot on the go... I read about the scripts changing distances, but that's moreless irrelevant to my reply.... Find the right range for these effects is non-trivial... and hard to balance...

Ellariona wrote:

Secondly, you can't go in and out of the forcefield when it is up, the targets inside are separated from the targets outside completely, you can try humping it though.

This was NOT clearly stated before....

If you can put up this bubble, and then ships inside can warp out or cyno out, but all other methods of getting in or out of the bubble are inhibited, this is VERY BROKEN....

Need to destroy a station or IHUB or TCU or offline POS.... Setup your BCHic in position, start the cycle, cyno in before the bubble goes up... seige your dreads for one cycle.... Destroy IHUB or TCU or SBU or Offline POS or Station (assuming you can position the BCHIc to allow targetting of the station while still in the bubble.... After one siege cycle, everyone cap up and cyno or warp to safety.... Nothing can come in to stop you....

Allow this in lowsec or highsec, and you can essentially deny a person access through all acceleration gates.... Need to insure no-one else does your plex... just put up this bubble around the entrance and you have 10 minutes to run your site... Combine it with a stabbed or cloak/mwd fit BCHic, and you have quite a bit of invulnerability...


Essentially, you MUST allow people to fly in and out of the bubble, even if they can't warp in, or else this is way to abuse-able.

It's a features and ideas discussion thread, is it not? If these "thoughts" were final, whats the use of posting them on forum? :p I might as well send it to the CSM instead then. Your replies have been very helpful in defining proper usage of the module.
apologies

Actually, this can easily turn against you, as you are giving hostiles the time to properly form up around you. Who says the defending party can't position a BChic next to a forcefield, with scouts giving intel about the timer, so that the new BChic can time their forcefield perfectly and put it up right when the first one (hostile one) falls down. Also, this BChic wouldn't be able to use it in low/highsec. I mean, what do you expect? Do you see bubbles in low/high? cyno's in high?

I have to disagree for previously mentioned reasons. It can be used and abused by both parties. We already have bubbles from the hics doing exactly what you want, (if you take t3 nullified ships into account).

This concept would be a huge grid manipulating tool:

* FC's can position BChics to cut off logistics from the enemy fleet (forcing them to move or kill the BChic)
* FC's can position BChics to cut off the support fleet from the main cap fleet (if they are a bit at range or positioned badly)
* FC's can protect a valuable asset if they are certain they can bring a sizeable enough fleet within reasonable time
* FC's can keep a valuable asset in place to bring in more dps to take it down.

See, it can work both ways, and people will adapt, experiment, have fun.
again:
* only allowed in nullsec / w-space
* nothing enters

1. New tech II BCs
2. New interdiction-like module that prevents leavin/entering by any means (still thinking about exceptions like covert cyno's or nullified t3's), creating a semi-controllable environment to fight in or to manipulate friendly/hostile fleets and / or assets.
3. I'm basically trying to add more value to fleet engagements, as in most cases, it's about calling proper primaries, anchoring and hopefully outgunning/outnumbering the hostiles.
4. Cat & Mouse tactics should be fun

Ok, then two changes must be made.

1st change: What if the module works as following:

a. 10km script, 30s generation, 600s forcefield
b. 25km script, 1min generation, 300s forcefield
c. 50km script, 2min generation, 150s forcefield

2nd change: the BChic is only immobile during the generation cycle



note: the only downside I see to all this, is the fact that jamming boats might be used less if you can cut off the entire logi part of a hostile fleet by this (untill they burned out of the forcefield of course)

I read over my quoted mistake a couple of times there, sorry about that. Now fixed. You can leave the bubble by burning out only, as it basically makes the area around the bubble, for the ones inside, a sort of endless bubble (thus inversed). For the ones outside the bubble, everything is the same except that they can't warp/jump/burn into the bubble. On the goal of this concept, i'm not going to repeat myself for the third time. Details are updated in my third post. The other stuff you asked is already in my 1st and 2nd post.

Now, on to another point:

The possibility of using covert cyno's, warp core stabs or t3 nullified subsystems as a measure to infiltrate these forcefields. What do you think would be the most viable option? (this would also make it less OP and more exciting, as you asked)