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Buff Lo and Null

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Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#81 - 2012-09-05 08:09:42 UTC
Jax Bederen wrote:
Roime wrote:
What exactly is wrong with lowsec?

I don't care if bears are too scared to go there, more sites and good fights for the rest of us.

It's really only the bears who are missing out on all the isk and fun.


Apparently it needs more isk and incentive for peeps to move there, fun is relative btw.



No it doesn't, doesn't matter how much rewards you put there. You could make sites pop can with trillions of isk in low sec would still be the waste land it is.
The problem is not low sec rewards amount available, it's players living there and low sec travelling mechanics.

brb
Jax Bederen
Dark Horse RM
#82 - 2012-09-05 08:22:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jax Bederen
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Jax Bederen wrote:
Roime wrote:
What exactly is wrong with lowsec?

I don't care if bears are too scared to go there, more sites and good fights for the rest of us.

It's really only the bears who are missing out on all the isk and fun.


Apparently it needs more isk and incentive for peeps to move there, fun is relative btw.



No it doesn't, doesn't matter how much rewards you put there. You could make sites pop can with trillions of isk in low sec would still be the waste land it is.
The problem is not low sec rewards amount available, it's players living there and low sec travelling mechanics.


I was being sarcastic. Though cans worth trillions might be worth it, then again....inflation.
psycho freak
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2012-09-05 08:35:21 UTC
High sec is centre of eve the trade hubs trade routes and should be full of activity

losec needs some love not all of it for carbare types remove gate guns and make regaining sec stat losec activty make wh entrances losec/0.0 only

0.0 been few years since i lived 0.0 but wot i rember best time was in pvp corps living in npc 0.0 hated sov owned space to much bullcrap but think 0.0 could use little love for the grunts not allince leaders who milked moons not sure wot tho

my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k

nop cant find it
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#84 - 2012-09-05 08:44:08 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:



[Controversial addendum] - Adding those new scalling-damage gate-guns into the mix, and now we're taking! Less gatecamps means even more high-sec players in low. Which means even more targets to explode!! Only difference is, you have to hunt them down, instead of the current gatecamp bordom.


It was, is and will be a very bad idea. It would not destroy gate camps at all but destroy low sec pvp at gates in its current form. I camp gates a lot and I can tell you that the change would favor gate campers and destroy the game for small to medium gang and fleet fights. Only faction warfare could still fight on gates but nobody else would be stuid enough to commit capitals (carriers, Dreads...) because they would die for sure.

If I kill a ship at a gate it takes a few seconds...ransoming the pod takes longer...so ransoming would be made impossible because of the damage incoming from the gateguns...
But all this was wrote over and over again in the threads attached to the topic.

It is easy to evade a gate camp...come in numbers and prepared. After some months in high sec a player should have learned enough to understand his ship and the mechanics. Low sec is no place for beginners and it should never be. As you said there should be some evolution....a progression. To be fair I really think that 0.0. is a better place to learn pvp than low sec...it is just easier to move through friendly territory...in low sec there is no such thing as "friendly" territory...even your home system hates you and gets you killed.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#85 - 2012-09-05 09:06:37 UTC
Jax Bederen wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Jax Bederen wrote:
Roime wrote:
What exactly is wrong with lowsec?

I don't care if bears are too scared to go there, more sites and good fights for the rest of us.

It's really only the bears who are missing out on all the isk and fun.


Apparently it needs more isk and incentive for peeps to move there, fun is relative btw.



No it doesn't, doesn't matter how much rewards you put there. You could make sites pop can with trillions of isk in low sec would still be the waste land it is.
The problem is not low sec rewards amount available, it's players living there and low sec travelling mechanics.


I was being sarcastic. Though cans worth trillions might be worth it, then again....inflation.



Oops woot missed that sry Blink

They already have faction rats dropping billions of isk for minimal effort but almost no carebear around because not only the risk of getting killed while doing it is close to 100% but then that carebear has to travel back home witch is almost impossible if a decided gang looks for it and wants it, the carebear has not a single chance.
And then they go to GD forums post "bring more rewards to low sec" "bring lvl4's to low sec" yadayada

brb
psycho freak
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2012-09-05 12:00:55 UTC
Losec a wast land? are u nutz losec is best place to live in eve tbh there are players ov all trades in losec it is the area in eve you can be free to do as you please it might take a little more efort than highsec but thats the point and you dont have the o.o bullcrap so its win win

dont matter were in eve u live high sec losec or o.o theres allways risks

my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k

nop cant find it
Jaison Savrin
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#87 - 2012-09-05 12:06:21 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:


If you mean no one is going to give them space for free yes you are correct. You need to do 1 of three things 1 Take space and hold on to it 2 rent space 3 make friends with another alliance and get space but you will have to show up to OPs and put your dues in to stay in said space. Null wants people I think your friends just want a null haven that is completly safe. I have moved to null and back 3 times because of losing space it is a part of the game.



Your point? I live in Null. Well aware. Doesn't stop people who are interested from running into road blocks. They liike PvE and mining. They would do fine in Null but as soon as someone finds out they'd rather shoot their own foot than take their skiff or Raven to a fleet. Well, no one is interested. As for renting... Yeah, that is a good deal. Roll Either way, I think there are things in Null that a lot of people would like to do but they aren't wanted because they aren't interested in PvP and holding Sov. If Null idiots weren't so aggressive and power hungry then they would be able to go to Null. As it is they're reasonably happy in High-Sec where they can do their own thing without much worry. I wonder just how many people live in High-Sec for those exact same reasons, hmmm.....
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2012-09-05 12:13:19 UTC
Jaison Savrin wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:


If you mean no one is going to give them space for free yes you are correct. You need to do 1 of three things 1 Take space and hold on to it 2 rent space 3 make friends with another alliance and get space but you will have to show up to OPs and put your dues in to stay in said space. Null wants people I think your friends just want a null haven that is completly safe. I have moved to null and back 3 times because of losing space it is a part of the game.



Your point? I live in Null. Well aware. Doesn't stop people who are interested from running into road blocks. They liike PvE and mining. They would do fine in Null but as soon as someone finds out they'd rather shoot their own foot than take their skiff or Raven to a fleet. Well, no one is interested. As for renting... Yeah, that is a good deal. Roll Either way, I think there are things in Null that a lot of people would like to do but they aren't wanted because they aren't interested in PvP and holding Sov. If Null idiots weren't so aggressive and power hungry then they would be able to go to Null. As it is they're reasonably happy in High-Sec where they can do their own thing without much worry. I wonder just how many people live in High-Sec for those exact same reasons, hmmm.....


I didn't say that. Please fix your post.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
PeHD0M
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2012-09-05 12:59:28 UTC
Solo PVP is DEAD. Fix that. Not everybody wants to join some nerds and listen their mumbling just to be able to play the game.

Reducing the risk of being killed may solve the problem:
1. remove warp scramblers, warp disruptors, warp bubbles\scripts from the game
2. increase the time required to start the warp drives
3. decrease incoming damage from multiple ships (something like stacking penalty)

For example, you will have like 15 seconds to kill a ship, if you fail - it will go away. Simple.
In the end, you'll see a lot more pew-pew, because people will have a chance of escape.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#90 - 2012-09-05 13:01:41 UTC
PeHD0M wrote:
Solo PVP is DEAD. Fix that. Not everybody wants to join some nerds and listen their mumbling just to be able to play the game.

Reducing the risk of being killed may solve the problem:
1. remove warp scramblers, warp disruptors, warp bubbles\scripts from the game
2. increase the time required to start the warp drives
3. decrease incoming damage from multiple ships (something like stacking penalty)

For example, you will have like 15 seconds to kill a ship, if you fail - it will go away. Simple.
In the end, you'll see a lot more pew-pew, because people will have a chance of escape.


Awarded as the worst comment of the week.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2012-09-05 13:04:43 UTC
PeHD0M wrote:
Solo PVP is DEAD. Fix that. Not everybody wants to join some nerds and listen their mumbling just to be able to play the game.

Reducing the risk of being killed may solve the problem:
1. remove warp scramblers, warp disruptors, warp bubbles\scripts from the game
2. increase the time required to start the warp drives
3. decrease incoming damage from multiple ships (something like stacking penalty)

For example, you will have like 15 seconds to kill a ship, if you fail - it will go away. Simple.
In the end, you'll see a lot more pew-pew, because people will have a chance of escape.


People from NPC corps always make the best posts! Lol

Keep up the fight buddy

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#92 - 2012-09-05 13:24:00 UTC
psycho freak wrote:
Losec a wast land? are u nutz losec is best place to live in eve tbh there are players ov all trades in losec it is the area in eve you can be free to do as you please it might take a little more efort than highsec but thats the point and you dont have the o.o bullcrap so its win win

dont matter were in eve u live high sec losec or o.o theres allways risks


Indeed, tehre are always risks but the major problem of low/hi sec is that you come from point 0 and it's not one nor 2 steps above in risk/game knowledge terms, it's more about 15 steps but the regular high sec players has little to any chance to learn before reward becomes acceptable vs risk.
In fact it's the other way around for those regular high sec players, it's all about risk to little/none profit just because they didn't had the time to learn.

But as long as this area of space is still polluted by 80 YO colonial arrogant/bitter/cynical bastards, for sure the "hard taken lesson" is the only way to go.
Again, the problem of low sec is not the amount of rewards to be made there, the problem of low sec is what players living there made of it.

brb
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#93 - 2012-09-05 13:50:46 UTC
Lin why you trolling again?

I mean, what's the point, that only gives the scaredbears more fuel for their misbeliefs.

Grab a T1 cruiser, go clean up some 4/10s, get back with hundreds of millions. Even if you lose a cruiser every now and then, you still end up rich, and have a great time.


.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#94 - 2012-09-05 14:20:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Roime wrote:

2) maybe the problem then is that hisec rewards exceed the risk?


It's not a problem at all.
Rewards MUST exceed the risks else why would anybody vaguely smart bother?

In fact what's broken with low sec is exactly this: rewards don't exceed the risk, thus people who seek reward (beyond PvP) won't go there. If reward exceeded risk then people would probably take on that risk to access the reward.


Roime wrote:

Or maybe EVE needs more people who enjoy the risk, not the isk?


That's a dying breed - if not dead already. Those people come from the old times, like when you'd play those super-hard mode MUD text games where a death could mean losing 1/3 of your level, permanent stat losses and whatever nasty the coder could invent.

Those "more people" don't exist, EvE is already taking the ones available and they are actually decreasing over the years.


Roime wrote:

3) there are no gate camps, there is only fear of gate camps, which needs to be cleansed with fire from NPC corps
Like I said, there really are no gate camps in lowsec. Avoid Amamake and you're golden. And just forget the idea that PVP folk is after soft targets, we prefer fights and not ganks, like hiseccers.


How odd, I get to see gatecamps, maybe my low sec is > your low sec /peen

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Idris Helion
Doomheim
#95 - 2012-09-05 14:40:30 UTC
Roime wrote:
Lin why you trolling again?

I mean, what's the point, that only gives the scaredbears more fuel for their misbeliefs.

Grab a T1 cruiser, go clean up some 4/10s, get back with hundreds of millions. Even if you lose a cruiser every now and then, you still end up rich, and have a great time.





The concern-trolling by pirates is always amusing.

"Come down to losec, noobs! It's not as dangerous as everyone says! You can fly free! There are billions of ISK just lying around waiting to be picked up! ...what? Of course you won't get popped by that 'Cane that just entered the system! He's just there to welcome you to the Elysian Fields of low security space! Just stay there while he comes to meet you, and you'll get a nice surprise!"



Pirates want noobs to go to losec so they can provide easy meat for killboards. Period. If pirates really wanted more people in losec, they'd stop camping gates. Don't listen to what they say; watch what they do.

The pirates should ask themselves: If the goal is really to get more people in losec space, how does camping gates and ganking noobs in T1 frigates really advance that goal?

Low security space is a wasteland for a reason -- there's little point in non-PVP players going there. And those hard-case PVP players apparently don't like to fight each other, so they have to figure out some way to gull hisec players into losec.
PeHD0M
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2012-09-05 14:44:51 UTC
EVE, EVE never changes. I see those threads every year Big smile Lazy pirates and null-dwellers demand from CCP to change the game to their favor because they are lazy, bored and simply want easy kills and more slaves.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#97 - 2012-09-05 15:13:17 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Tal, don't bother replying if you have nothing intelligent to say, just stick to calling people who don't agree with you "trolls".

To make it clear to anyone else, i want all parts of eve to be an amazing and fun experience but i currently think high sec holds the game back a little in that it instilled a aversion to risk and as evident in this thread, a scene of entitlement.

I agree with those that say low/null sec needs to be improved gameplay wise to attract people but it is not as simple as saying "they should fix it".

In the short term, i think the best way would be to slightly nerf high sec in the form of isk payouts so that more people would get out there and find better ways to make isk and in turn, discover new ways to play the game. Without such a change, i feel people will be content to stay running level 4's at 100 mil + per hour and afk mining all day, to a degree where they may even overlook the changes that CCP have already made or will be making (FW, Dust) in the future.

"holds the game back" - How? Aversion to risk? Soooooo... no pvp in hi sec at all huh?

Or do you just not get that some people have different tastes in what they want out of a game? And how is this thread *any* evidence of a "sense" of entitlement? Clue: It's not.

People who want "better ways to make isk" already do. Exploration being one of them (when I dedicate myself to it I make in excess of 100m/hour exploring - takes time and skills, but it's definitely possible).

What is *wrong* with people being content to run 4's or mine? (AFK mining has it's own risks). As evidenced by the population, there are lots of people who aren't interested in FW. Same with dust. So "overlooking the changes" might just be deliberate. Just so you know, Hi-Sec mission running has been nerfed at least 4 times over the years I can think of. I'm sure that's not all, just what I can remember off the top of my head.

People still stay. Why? They want to... Roll
MIrple wrote:
What they coul do to make Low more attractive is make it so Hi sec stations have a built in tax on everything. Make it so you cant get perfect refine in empire make it so missions are taxed n empire make it so industry is taxed in empire. Then let Low have perfect refine with skills. You can stay in empire but concord is going to tax you for the amount of safety they provie.

11% npc corp tax wasn't enough? Well, guess I called that one. Gotta remember, there are trillions of inhabitants on the planets who concord is (somewhat) protecting as well. Ensuring shipments get in, trade, the market, etc., etc.,


No a most player corps have a tax of 10% this is minamal at best and you get the added protection of never getting wardec. This 11% tax also only effects mission runners as market and mining people do not even see this. Tell me how it is fair to target one part of a NPC corp and not the rest. Also if you take your time and read what I put this goes against every corp in Hi not just NPC corps. But I guess then your arguement wouldnt hold up.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2012-09-05 15:15:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Why do so many people have such a low opinion of them selves to say that if they go to low sec, they would just be easy targets for the pirates?

Are you less intelligent than the pirates? Do you think that low sec dwellers were born with the knowledge of how to avoid a gate camp?

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#99 - 2012-09-05 15:43:28 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Why do so many people have such a low opinion of them selves to say that if they go to low sec, they would just be easy targets for the pirates?

Are you less intelligent than the pirates? Do you think that low sec dwellers were born with the knowledge of how to avoid a gate camp?


We even tell them how to evade us and still they are caught in that same old reflexes....

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
PeHD0M
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2012-09-05 16:26:24 UTC
Because:
1. pve fitted ship vs pvp fitted ship = you lose
2. 1 vs many = you lose
3. non combat ship vs combat ship = you lose
4. bad internet connection = you lose
5. not using meta gaming tricks = you lose

Also, if CCP will reduce the rewards in hi-sec then even less players will go to low-sec, because it will be harder for them to recover from the loss of the ship. P