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Why CFC Will Lose The War

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Signal11th
#161 - 2012-07-12 07:59:16 UTC
SetrakDark wrote:
Marconus Orion wrote:
Interesting how when the topic of power projection comes up and how it needs looked at; major power blocks come running in screaming it does not need a nerf. Yet if you look in this very thread nothing but bragging by the very same people of how easy logistics and power projection is and how it enables them to be anywhere on the map with ease. Ugh

The truth is revealed.


Oh wow, another confused strawman from noted nullsec expert, marlona sky.

The post you are referring to in this thread is talking about creating a single staging area to defend a region from assault. It would be impossible to remove this ability without...never mind, it would just be impossible under the basic mechanics of the entire game as we know it. Removing the ability for people to make their way to any point in the galaxy over the course of literally a week would remove the ability for anyone to do anything.

What actually knowledgeable nullsec people are concerned about with reference to "power projection" is the free movement of capitals, where you can't have a good regional supercap scrap without a reasonable fear that every other supercap fleet in the game can make it there in time to pile on. This ability to "project power" over huge distances in a short period of time limits the ability for smaller regional escalations. It isn't game-breaking, but it does dampen strategy and fun somewhat for smaller entities. This has to do with recharge times, and is potentially addressable.

What actually knowledgeable nullsec people are vehemently against is a further JB nerf, which actually has nothing to do with "power projection" and everything to do with making the day to day in nullsec more bearable, and maintaining sov space as something worth claiming, developing, and defending.



lol, TL DR

If you disagree with current mechanics in 0.0 you know nothing and have never lived in 0.0
If you agree with us you're cool!!

Muppet.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Pipa Porto
#162 - 2012-07-12 08:05:18 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
SetrakDark wrote:
Marconus Orion wrote:
Interesting how when the topic of power projection comes up and how it needs looked at; major power blocks come running in screaming it does not need a nerf. Yet if you look in this very thread nothing but bragging by the very same people of how easy logistics and power projection is and how it enables them to be anywhere on the map with ease. Ugh

The truth is revealed.


Oh wow, another confused strawman from noted nullsec expert, marlona sky.

The post you are referring to in this thread is talking about creating a single staging area to defend a region from assault. It would be impossible to remove this ability without...never mind, it would just be impossible under the basic mechanics of the entire game as we know it. Removing the ability for people to make their way to any point in the galaxy over the course of literally a week would remove the ability for anyone to do anything.

What actually knowledgeable nullsec people are concerned about with reference to "power projection" is the free movement of capitals, where you can't have a good regional supercap scrap without a reasonable fear that every other supercap fleet in the game can make it there in time to pile on. This ability to "project power" over huge distances in a short period of time limits the ability for smaller regional escalations. It isn't game-breaking, but it does dampen strategy and fun somewhat for smaller entities. This has to do with recharge times, and is potentially addressable.

What actually knowledgeable nullsec people are vehemently against is a further JB nerf, which actually has nothing to do with "power projection" and everything to do with making the day to day in nullsec more bearable, and maintaining sov space as something worth claiming, developing, and defending.



lol, TL DR

If you disagree with current mechanics in 0.0 you know nothing and have never lived in 0.0
If you agree with us you're cool!!

Muppet.


Quote:
A straw man is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.


He stated that there is no way to prevent setting up staging areas and that the primary concern with regards to "Power Projection" is Supercapital movement speed, so JB mechanics aren't relevant either.

None of his posts amounts to "Current Mechanics in 0.0 can't be reasonably disagreed with"

If you can't come up with a reasoned response to someone's post, you might consider not responding to their post.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Signal11th
#163 - 2012-07-12 08:08:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Pipa Porto wrote:
Signal11th wrote:
SetrakDark wrote:
Marconus Orion wrote:
Interesting how when the topic of power projection comes up and how it needs looked at; major power blocks come running in screaming it does not need a nerf. Yet if you look in this very thread nothing but bragging by the very same people of how easy logistics and power projection is and how it enables them to be anywhere on the map with ease. Ugh

The truth is revealed.


Oh wow, another confused strawman from noted nullsec expert, marlona sky.


What actually knowledgeable nullsec people .

What actually knowledgeable nullsec people are vehemently against is a further JB nerf, which actually has nothing to do with "power projection" and everything to do with making the day to day in nullsec more bearable, and maintaining sov space as something worth claiming, developing, and defending.



lol, TL DR

If you disagree with current mechanics in 0.0 you know nothing and have never lived in 0.0
If you agree with us you're cool!!

Muppet.


Quote:
A straw man is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.


He stated that there is no way to prevent setting up staging areas and that the primary concern with regards to "Power Projection" is Supercapital movement speed, so JB mechanics aren't relevant either.

None of his posts amounts to "Current Mechanics in 0.0 can't be reasonably disagreed with"

If you can't come up with a reasoned response to someone's post, you might consider not responding to their post.



Who said I disagreed with the post??? The way it was written was what I was complaining about not the message itself, try not to get on your high horse quite so quickly next time.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Pipa Porto
#164 - 2012-07-12 08:14:58 UTC
Signal11th wrote:

Who said I disagreed with the post??? The way it was written was what I was complaining about not the message itself, try not to get on your high horse quite so quickly next time.


Then say that. Misrepresenting the content of someone's post then calling them a "Muppet" usually indicates disagreement (without bothering to lay out a reasoned argument for such).

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#165 - 2012-07-12 08:31:04 UTC
Pipa - If you would like to have a debate on the subject of power projection and what qualifies, I am game any time.
Bree Okanata
Perkone
Caldari State
#166 - 2012-07-12 08:31:55 UTC
At least they will have gud fites.
Signal11th
#167 - 2012-07-12 10:23:53 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Signal11th wrote:

Who said I disagreed with the post??? The way it was written was what I was complaining about not the message itself, try not to get on your high horse quite so quickly next time.


Then say that. Misrepresenting the content of someone's post then calling them a "Muppet" usually indicates disagreement (without bothering to lay out a reasoned argument for such).



How am I misrepresenting someone else's post when they include lines "Knowledgeable 0.0 dwellers" indicating than anyone else who disagrees with the post is in somehow not knowlegeable?

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Pipa Porto
#168 - 2012-07-12 14:15:28 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Signal11th wrote:

Who said I disagreed with the post??? The way it was written was what I was complaining about not the message itself, try not to get on your high horse quite so quickly next time.


Then say that. Misrepresenting the content of someone's post then calling them a "Muppet" usually indicates disagreement (without bothering to lay out a reasoned argument for such).



How am I misrepresenting someone else's post when they include lines "Knowledgeable 0.0 dwellers" indicating than anyone else who disagrees with the post is in somehow not knowlegeable?


When you said "0.0 mechanics" in your tl;dr rather than listing them, implying that the OP was talking about all 0.0 mechanics.

Like I said, if you don't like the tone of someone's post, figure out a way to call them out on it without misrepresenting the content of their post.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Shirehorse
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#169 - 2012-09-05 07:45:04 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Signal11th wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Signal11th wrote:

Who said I disagreed with the post??? The way it was written was what I was complaining about not the message itself, try not to get on your high horse quite so quickly next time.


Then say that. Misrepresenting the content of someone's post then calling them a "Muppet" usually indicates disagreement (without bothering to lay out a reasoned argument for such).



How am I misrepresenting someone else's post when they include lines "Knowledgeable 0.0 dwellers" indicating than anyone else who disagrees with the post is in somehow not knowlegeable?


When you said "0.0 mechanics" in your tl;dr rather than listing them, implying that the OP was talking about all 0.0 mechanics.

Like I said, if you don't like the tone of someone's post, figure out a way to call them out on it without misrepresenting the content of their post.



To be honest I think he had a valid argument calling him a muppet.
William Walker
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#170 - 2012-09-05 07:53:27 UTC
The only people who win are the industrialists. Those ships and guns and ammunition that need to be made to fuel the wars, they win.

ヽ(⌒∇⌒)ﾉ へ(゜∇、°)へ (◕‿◕✿)
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#171 - 2012-09-05 08:04:13 UTC
Thread necro is worst necro. This thread was well on its way to oblivion and has no real place in this forum section anyway, so it gets a nice big lock - ISD Type40.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]