Wormholes

Well there you have it. The amount of POS killed in c2 wormholes match the amount killed in c5s, and there are more towers killed in c1s than in c6s. Even when adjusting for the amount of c1s vs the amount of c6s... it still shows there is decent activity in c1s, and the 'average # of players on km' isn't much different either.

There's pretty much nothing to suggest that there is something that "needs fixing" in lower class wormholes, especially not huge, idiotic nerfs like not being able to set up large towers, or not use certain pos mods, etc.

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C1-C3 will always have a k-space static. C2 has a w-space static as well. Collapse the static, find the new k-space exit, and the fleet can continue to pile into the system.


The more I think about it, the more it seems people are fighting over ways to treat the symptoms, and are not discussing the real problems. Bane may have touched on the root of the problem: ECM is overpowered on POSes, just like it was on ships. As it was balanced on ships, so should it be balanced on POSes.

One quick top-of-the-head example is to vastly reduce (or eliminate) the strength of off-racial jamming. A White Noise jammer then might only jam a Radar-based ship, while a Grav-based ship would be near-immune. To ease the sudden nerf a bit, automatic targeting for ECM mods should somewhat prefer same-racial ships; that same White Noise jammer has a 25% higher chance to target a Radar-based ship if one is present.


Ideally, in a multi-player game, you are not taken out of the multi-player environment (ie: flying in space) except for reasons necessary for the smooth/correct operation of the game. Stations and docking is a balancing point in that perspective, since it takes you out of the multi-player environment yet is essential in some places (such as Jita and other trade hubs).

Location: When you are taken out of the multi-player environment, you lose the features available to that multi-player environment: dscan, the "grid", and the overview are three specific examples. You lose these features because "you" (your user object, connection object, whatever) are not in the same zone or instance as the outside of the station. You have been moved to a single-player instance resembling the inside of a station. Again, this is a multi-player game, so this should be discouraged wherever possible.

Safety: It provides you with an environment where you are 100% safe, other than scams. In Hisec, this is fine. It's probably okay even in Lowsec and NPC Nullsec as well, since those areas are still NPC-controlled. In Sov Nullsec and w-space this is not acceptable, as there is no reason why anyone should be 100% safe in these areas. Except for gates, anything and everything should be destroyable in W-space and SOV Nullsec with the caveat that if more effort and expense is put into defending it, more effort and expense should be required to destroy it.

Station Services: The only station service that strictly requires being removed from the multi-player environment (ie: space) is the Captain's Quarters. Your avatar, formerly a space ship, becomes a humanoid and your control changes to that environment. Hisec, Lowsec, and NPC Nullsec can provide this service in a 100% safe environment. Sov Nullsec can provide it, but it should not be 100% safe. W-space is considered "frontier" and "unknown" space, and should not have such conveniences. Technically, according to CCP we're not supposed to be living in W-space anyway.


Having a single object is more efficient for the game, so there is a strong argument for creating a modular POS. Instead of anchoring modules randomly within the force field, you attach them to the superstructure of the POS core. Then, access to the various services depends only on proximity to the central core; calculating distances between dozens of POS modules and thousands of people multiple times per second should become a thing of the past.

Access to station services should also depend on proximity to the central core. Rewrite station services code to work in space, based on proximity. A simple check for whether the current object is either docked or within range of the POS core would be the only check needed to provide service to someone. If you are always within range of your hangar, you can guarantee that any modules you have will be accessible when you load a stored fitting, etc.

Forcefields are interesting because they provide a different form of gameplay. You may be 100% safe inside for as long as the force field is up, but your safety is not guaranteed long-term. It is an interim dwelling, like quickly setting up a mobile unit at a construction site where you build your new home and does not provide all of the comforts of a full-sized home. You also have full view of the system, and your attackers have full view of you and what you're doing. You can mount defenses and run some industry, but again, not to the extent you can at a full station or outpost. These are acceptable trade-offs for W-space and (IMO) Sov Nullsec.

If force fields are so poorly written that they need to be scrapped -- perhaps for the same efficiency reasons as millions of calculations for large Null fleet distances to POS modules -- then something more elegant can certainly be worked out. It would be unfortunate to lose a unique style of gameplay just because no one wanted to bother doing it right. I'm sure that if W-space dwellers brainstormed, we could come up with some ideas to make it a more efficient design.

Why after listening to Two step's wormhole talk am I worried about C1-C4s being a Ghost town, only visited by Hi-sec tourists and people from C5-C6.

I gotta say, ECM on poses without dreads are a pain in the ass to deal with. The weak off-racial jamming is equivalent to a max skilled falcon pilot. Any racial jammer is enough to jam any subcap, regardless of having the correct racial or not.

I propose that these off-racial jamming strengths should be removed, so the pos owner must carefully pick his racial jammers.


I also believe that once a pos is reinforced EVERYTHING should be turned off. For both CPU and Powergrid. This will prevent the reinforced pos from activating anymore guns and prevent the use of SMA's. You can no longer take out ships out of an sma, just as you can no longer take items out of a corp hangar.

This is provide a greater incentive and reward to reinforce poses in a quick and efficient matter, before your targets have a chance to respond.

It'd really help a big degree if just the convience things would addressed: Opening containers and renaming those in a POS module for example. There are so many small things. Again I got the feeling that CCP will overhaul POS' bringing in some new interesting mechanics and like the inventory making things worse. They are not really into iterating features until they are really good.

Here is my stupid idea:

Make a central station that you don't actually dock in. There is a large central structure but it will have arms (larger POS will have more arms) and there will be little minidocks (think the thing the enterprise is in at the beginning of the first TOS movie) that your ship will go into (and be visible and even still on the overview). When in this state, you can't move, but your overview still works. Have it so that any pos friendly ship within a small radius (5km?) of the arm will be invulnerable to attack and unable to attack itself (kind of how the shield works now) because of a shield buff (like super shield transporters that cannot be out-dpsed).

In addition to your overview, when docked you'd have access to all normal docking options.


What do you guys think?

You seem to not understand what an elected official is. You weren't elected to give YOUR opinion, you were elected to represent EVERYONE'S opinion. i get that we don't all agree on a single idea, but the majority seems to agree that we dont want K-Space in our W-Space.

Docking is great and all but if i wanted a station i would join 0.0 and play my docking games there. Attackers would be at a HUGE advantage, not only can we not see who is in OUR home but the second we go to undock a defense fleet is the second they release their bombs to kill us before we can even load grid.

Also, i would have to agree with the c1-c4 dwellers, it is tougher than living in a c5/6. Sure you have a defensive advantage but, if you cant get control of your statics then you are just as screwed as any other WH.

Just like so: http://beta.tl-eve.com/kb/index.php/kill_related/8283/

There may not be any caps on this battle report but they did have caps but were too afraid to use them.
and there also was a lot of ECM but we didnt bother killing them once we were done with the tower.

c1-c4s are just as vulnerable to eviction as a c5/6 if not more so.

Alt-e?

Honestly a carrier or dred in a c1-4 can increase the chance you get sieged. Everyone wants a carrier killmail, and having a carrier or dred means most likely you have valuable stuff in POS. (Ratting carriers make surprising good bait and will cause normally sane fleets to take obvious bait.) In order to properly use a carrier in pvp you need 4-5 BC/BS to provide dps, ecm/eccm, neut, and the like; Other wise you'll be pointed, neuted, jammed, then ground down. Most carriers in c1-4 pvp tend to stay in the POS and assign fighters to the ships doing actual pvp, which while handy isn't better than a well fit ship.


Also I'm not sure why people fixate on the number of poses lost vs number of systems of a given type. There are a number of reasons c1 have few POS losses per system:
- There are a lot of C1s with lowsec, and nullsec statics. Few people want these, and fewer people want to travel through low sec for the siege, and to get home. (Unlike C2 which have 2 statics and you can always find a route to HS.)
- C1 are low profit and sustain few people, and have less valuable loot from a siege. Few corps are going to take the effort to kick out a corp just to have their own C1.
- C1 holes tend to have few POSes than c2-4. When look at C5-6 systems you are talking x2-5 more POS on average. This due to both the lower profits found in C1s, and that a C1 rarely supports more than one corp, and the average corp is smaller.