EVE General Discussion

So, not very relevant at all.

Okay, then.


But more PVP, i.e. a good thing.


Almost forgot to address this.

I see +4s seem to sell around 500 pr day, while +5s sell for 100-150 pr day. This doesn't strike me as a huge market, and there'll always be people who forget to take them out (just like there are people who forget to insure their ships etc).

It's funny that people whine about hte implants, when it's the actual clone cost that should be looked upon :)

500 per day at 16.4 mill each = 8.2 bill a day.
150 per day at 73.5 mill each = 11 bill a day.

The above is based upon the Ocular filter -- Perception. It is based upon the prices of the first 40 units of each on the market in Jita -- which seems to have the lowest prices but also highest volume of sales.

Being as the usual layout for PvP is to get 1 of each for your primary and secondary attributes, you'd be looking at roughly 32 mill using +4's and 150 mill using +5's per podding.

It's a working market item. Making them removable would be a bad thing - like rigs on your ship. It would damage the market big-time.

---

Back on topic:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114412

It's a fun read of an old thread that touches on the implants. It's amusing how he ends with:

So even after losing 7 ships, the only disappointment I was left with was knowing that, in the long run, it still made more sense to stay in my learning clone, away from just-for-fun PvP.

It's about not earning the SP that sit heavy on many players minds. For many, the isk side is trivial but "flying smart" is not. Fitting a clone with expensive implants to PvP with is as smart as fitting officer items on a cheap frigate -- there are those that can "afford it" readily but doing so is considered stupid - irrespective of how much ISK you can afford, it's just stupid to "over-fit" a ship -OR- a clone for PvP use.

The ability to fit & fly ships in this game is a major motivation - be that from a new char still working Engineering up, or a more experienced char trying to "meet requirements" for a given corp/alliance's operations - "need carriers 5 & JDC 5 or I can't fly a super" - the latter will park a char just as readily as "can't fit an MWD on my tackler" to a newbie.

Only after chars have the SP do players tend to find it to be a trivial issue - or once they have a batch of accounts, each focused on different parts of the game, do they not find it not worth looking at.

Doesn't this come down to rule number 1?

1. Don't fly what you cant afford to loose.


So if you cant afford to loose +4 skill implants, don't use them.


This whole argument is like proposing that a High Sec player is less likely to loose a 1bil faction fitted ship than someone in null sec is so we should just eliminate the possibility of owning such ships.

And as to this,

(quotes from Mittani)

"Newbies are generally encouraged to buy sets of +3 implants to speed up their skill training. Without a support network of older players, even the paltry cost of such a set is substantial to the new player who is surprised when his wallet reaches nine digits after mining or running missions for weeks on end. This “expensive” set of implants contributes to a risk-averse attitude where the new player is afraid of ever leaving the supposed safety of highsec and finds himself leaving the game when this presumption of safety turns out to be untrue. While losses should matter, learning implants are only a superficial loss that ultimately contribute nothing to game play."

I remember training learning skills. I thought it was unique, tiresome but unique and at the time was a pretty cool idea as far as games go. I bought learning implants as I could afford them. I put more thought into what I was doing in game and my strategy because of the inherent danger of EVE and loosing those implants. This greatly improved my time in EVE as there was more risk. I went and earned my first jump clone just because of skill implants. IT WAS AWESOME.

Loosing implants is hardly superficial when you consider the time invested in obtaining them and using them wisely. No different than loosing a ship. A new player is just as risk adverse when they get into a new BC or other shiny and the financial or moral setback can be just as crushing.

"Empire players tend to have a huge advantage in this regard - they can do virtually everything with a full +5s and hardwirings since pods can warp out almost instantly in the event that they lose a ship, and NPCs never shoot pods in any case. Players in nullsec generally find themselves with implants that speed up the skills they may be training at that time and inexpensive hardwirings, simply because losing a pod is nearly inevitable after losing a ship when bubbled.

For these reasons, learning implants should be eliminated from the game. This would simultaneously constitute one of the most significant improvements to the new player experience, and a necessary step towards removing outdated and unnecessary cruft from the game. While it would also constitute the removal of a significant “isk sink,” as they are sourced from LP stores, that alone does not justify staying in the game."

What a bunch of crap. Unnecessary cruft? How about we leave them in because people want them, they are desirable, have value, and effectively make life more interesting in EVE.

You want to get rid of unnecessary cruft? Get rid of WIS.

You don't want to loose your shinnies so easy? Go live in HighSec.

Quit your bitching and HTFU.

EVE is a meta game.

player A takes advantage of skill bonusing using implants

player b does not.

player B meets player A in two years in space and duke it out

Player A may have a slight advantage on player B due to higher skill count in certain areas.

Player A wins due to this. (granted player B could also win but in this scenario this is the case, and not an unlikely one)

Player B wishes he would have thought about this 2 years ago.

Player A likes how many skill points he has, shoots pod, gathers corpse, sells loot.

..

Player A learned the 7 Ps of planning and brought his A game.

Well done player A for learning so much so fast. Oh and finding a moron in a megathron

Learning implants are fine.

Just because I fly around in +3s (since yes you do lose pods in nullsec) instead of +5s like most highseccers doesn't bother me a bit. The tradeoff is I make a ton more isk (and spend more since ships tend to go pop in null), and dont have to travel far for PvP (lately its "press undock, start shooting").

I can get ~30m in my Naga, without fighters assigned. It's a bit less but with a 130mil ship theres a lot less stress so I dont mind the hit.

Still, I can only run a few hubs a day (@ ~25-30mil a piece) before I get the urge to choke myself. So yea nullsec isk making is surprisingly unproductive if youre anywhere near sain.

OP confuses concept of relative competitive advantage/disadvantage with the concept of safety, 24 page thread ensues