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Buff Lo and Null

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Spurty
#61 - 2012-09-04 17:55:06 UTC
Concord all pirate ships and mods and implants in high sec.

Why have a law and allow piracy?

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#62 - 2012-09-04 18:03:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
No amount of buffing can "fix" low-sec. Change it.

Nullsec needs buffed but also fixed. Corp/Alliance controls can be something that would give a indirect boost, also fixing POSs, redoing industry in 0.0. reverting the anomoly nerf, market only usable if you have docking rights, adding more entry points, etc.

This ^

The crimewatch changes are going to fundamentally change lowsec already... making it a lot safer (since lowsec gatecamps as we know them will be a thing of the past). If they de-incentivize high sec particularly around industry, mining, and missions, as I understand they are planning to do, I think lowsec will get a lot more interesting.

With regards to nullsec, you hit pretty much everything. I might add slowing down fleets/teleportation and maybe player controlled gates. New cap rolls and a specialized dread class of titan killer might be a good idea too...

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#63 - 2012-09-04 18:11:58 UTC
Rats wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Rats wrote:


Hi sec doesn't need to be looked at till low and null are "fixed", what is it low and null are broken so hi sec should be to ?



I don't consider low sec or null sec to be broken, i consider high sec to be OP.

Please tell me what is "brocken" about low, null.



Access, Sovereignty etc, Killboard stats being more important than actually playing the game, greifers.. need I go on ....


Tal




Yes, yes you need to go on, and try to formulate at least a single reasonable argument.

Access to all systems in EVE happens via stargates or wormholes, and there are a lot of those. Low and wormholes have no sov.

Killboard bitches and griefers exist only in hisec.

This thread is once again full of ignorant hisec trolls, repeating the same canned arguments they've read somewhere, without even considering what they mean, ad nauseaum.

Like bots.

.
Josef Djugashvilis
#64 - 2012-09-04 18:14:30 UTC
Roime wrote:
Rats wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Rats wrote:


Hi sec doesn't need to be looked at till low and null are "fixed", what is it low and null are broken so hi sec should be to ?



I don't consider low sec or null sec to be broken, i consider high sec to be OP.

Please tell me what is "brocken" about low, null.



Access, Sovereignty etc, Killboard stats being more important than actually playing the game, greifers.. need I go on ....


Tal




Yes, yes you need to go on, and try to formulate at least a single reasonable argument.

Access to all systems in EVE happens via stargates or wormholes, and there are a lot of those. Low and wormholes have no sov.

Killboard bitches and griefers exist only in hisec.

This thread is once again full of ignorant hisec trolls, repeating the same canned arguments they've read somewhere, without even considering what they mean, ad nauseaum.

Like bots.



Thank you sir, for adding your intellectual weight to this threadSad

This is not a signature.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#65 - 2012-09-04 18:23:40 UTC
I'm not surprised that someone like you considers that post intellectual. In this trainwreck of a thread, even just writing ablababluu would have been enough to impress.

.
Josef Djugashvilis
#66 - 2012-09-04 18:35:07 UTC
Roime wrote:
I'm not surprised that someone like you considers that post intellectual. In this trainwreck of a thread, even just writing ablababluu would have been enough to impress.



'someone like you'?

Oh well, time for me to unsubscribe from this thread.

This is not a signature.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#67 - 2012-09-04 19:05:08 UTC
It's the little moments like this that make it all worthwhile.

You know, enduring GD, swooping low to get level with the trolls and spending valuable free time to countertroll them can sometimes be really hard. ****** job, but we owe it to humanity, and that's why we must do it.

Civilized society without NPC corp posters is a dream, utopia, but I strongly believe that every little step we take towards that dream already makes the world a better place. Thru pain, tears and sweat towards the light!

.
Jax Bederen
Dark Horse RM
#68 - 2012-09-04 20:19:46 UTC
Jafit wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
100 mill isk per hour plus running level 4 missions.

I wish.


You don't blitz them for the LP?

What a nerd.


I thought it was the nerds that new all the ins and outs not the other way around. Maybe you should have used noob instead

Anyway 100 mill an hour blitzing for LP in missions? Don't see it happening unless all the planets aligned and you got the right missions, no multiple rooms, no mad hp on a structure to destroy, or simply like most, having to kill everything. Even 10 missions at 5k LP wont get you there. You can only decline so many and travel time between agents will eat a good deal of that hour. Then for some good profit items you need tags, there goes the profit. I only blitz for Lp when like now I'm sitting on half a bill worth of tags. Otherwise it's not that different then cleaning out a good mission.
Cheshirepus
Divinity Rising
#69 - 2012-09-04 20:42:18 UTC
I always wished we could use bombs in low sec and could never come up with a reasonable excuse why they shouldn't be allowed.

Also liked it when you had to actually put time and effort into probing down grav and radar sites. You could mine Gneiss and Crokite for hours on end in low sec and not have to worry (too much) about getting jumped... and hell, if you did get jumped, the guys who dropped in earned the opportunity to do so.

Not that anyone gives a crap, but I'd love to see just those two things happen to buff low sec.



Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#70 - 2012-09-04 22:16:40 UTC
Cheshirepus wrote:
I always wished we could use bombs in low sec and could never come up with a reasonable excuse why they shouldn't be allowed.

Also liked it when you had to actually put time and effort into probing down grav and radar sites. You could mine Gneiss and Crokite for hours on end in low sec and not have to worry (too much) about getting jumped... and hell, if you did get jumped, the guys who dropped in earned the opportunity to do so.

Not that anyone gives a crap, but I'd love to see just those two things happen to buff low sec.

I'm willing to bet good ISK that once the Crimewatch changes go live, CCP is going to take a long, hard look at lowsec rules again, and will at the very least touch on and discuss some of what you bring up. The modular POS system and Crimewatch will change lowsec in ways that are radical and hard to predict, imho.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#71 - 2012-09-05 01:22:09 UTC
There are people in high-sec that are full-on carebears. They will never leave. But all the other players, and the newer players, have little incentive to leave to the dangerous parts of the galaxy, as certain death awaits. The rewards of these areas of space don't exceed the risk. I personally feel that there should be a natural evolution for players, that after they've learned enough of eve's crazy-massive learning curve, they can take the steps from the safety of high, into low and null. As it stands, this is not working. Lowsec is a barren wasteland, and serves more as a barrer between high and null than anything else. All the players that live there want is a steady flow of victims into their gatecamps. They've become the victims to their own actions, and have taught anyone that comes under their guns that lowsec is not a place to travel.

So i definately agree that buffing lowsec could act as a catalyst for highsec players to try breaking their mold. If the reward is great enough, then they might be willing to take the risk. More rewards for highsec players, and more potential targets for the lowsec dwellers. Win, win!
[Controversial addendum] - Adding those new scalling-damage gate-guns into the mix, and now we're taking! Less gatecamps means even more high-sec players in low. Which means even more targets to explode!! Only difference is, you have to hunt them down, instead of the current gatecamp bordom. Leveling the playing field could leave to loads of players having a positive PVP experience in low security space, rather than the standard OMGWTFPWNED experience.

Don't think null should be buffed mind, they're making crap-tons of isk. Though suggestions of changes that get them all fighting over things would be welcome! Cool

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#72 - 2012-09-05 01:41:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuri Kinnes
James 315 wrote:
Right, because whiners from low and null are the problem in EVE. Roll

People have been bitching that Hi-Sec is too profitable since I joined Eve in Feb 2008...
Rek Seven wrote:
Who would be forcing you to move out of high sec?

That is the perceived goal of all of the "nerf this, that and the other thing..." commentary.

Rek Seven wrote:
For people like you there is current the no choice. You are even too scared to try life out of high sec or you easily earn enough isk that there is no need for you to look elsewhere.

Unsubstantiated and unproven assumption on your part.

Rek Seven wrote:
I'm saying CCP should give you that choice. Either you move out of high, earn a boat load of isk and experience the full game

Bias determined. Player driven means that what he/she and his/her friends do might just be interesting to them. Regardless of your opinion.

Rek Seven wrote:
or you stay in highsec and slog your guts out day after day in level 4's trying to get enough isk to get that PLEX every month.

How do you know they aren't paying (like I did) for a year at a shot (at a substantial discount)? You don't, just another assumption on your part.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2012-09-05 01:46:02 UTC
James 315 wrote:
Rats wrote:
Dear CCP

Can you buff and lo and Null so we don't keep listening to them bleat about how hi sec needs to be nerfed Roll

Tal

Right, because whiners from low and null are the problem in EVE. Roll

In this case, James, you don't need sarcasm tags, as your statement is true Big smile.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#74 - 2012-09-05 02:14:54 UTC
Gogela wrote:
The crimewatch changes are going to fundamentally change lowsec already... making it a lot safer (since lowsec gatecamps as we know them will be a thing of the past). If they de-incentivize high sec particularly around industry, mining, and missions, as I understand they are planning to do, I think lowsec will get a lot more interesting.

With regards to nullsec, you hit pretty much everything. I might add slowing down fleets/teleportation and maybe player controlled gates. New cap rolls and a specialized dread class of titan killer might be a good idea too...

Good, good. Just as planned, etc etc.

Titan killers would be nice, heh ... they'd also be really nice for shooting other large things that might not even be able to move or warp away.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2012-09-05 02:17:35 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
No amount of buffing can "fix" low-sec. Change it.

Nullsec needs buffed but also fixed. Corp/Alliance controls can be something that would give a indirect boost, also fixing POSs, redoing industry in 0.0. reverting the anomoly nerf, market only usable if you have docking rights, adding more entry points, etc.

This ^

The crimewatch changes are going to fundamentally change lowsec already... making it a lot safer (since lowsec gatecamps as we know them will be a thing of the past). If they de-incentivize high sec particularly around industry, mining, and missions, as I understand they are planning to do, I think lowsec will get a lot more interesting.

With regards to nullsec, you hit pretty much everything. I might add slowing down fleets/teleportation and maybe player controlled gates. New cap rolls and a specialized dread class of titan killer might be a good idea too...

The market thing would be really nice, for one. It's extremely irritating going to buy a named 10MN MWD and finding all of them in the region have been relisted at 1.5B each.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Sebiestor Tribe
#76 - 2012-09-05 02:26:15 UTC
James 315 wrote:
Rats wrote:
Dear CCP

Can you buff and lo and Null so we don't keep listening to them bleat about how hi sec needs to be nerfed Roll

Tal

Right, because whiners from low and null are the problem in EVE. Roll


Well, except for that one demagogue in hisec.

Besides, I wouldn't call them a problem...I liken them more to those girls on the reality shows that get all butthurt when they get a brand new Lexus instead of the Escalade for their birthday.

John Hancock
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#77 - 2012-09-05 02:29:33 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
No amount of buffing can "fix" low-sec. Change it.

Nullsec needs buffed but also fixed. Corp/Alliance controls can be something that would give a indirect boost, also fixing POSs, redoing industry in 0.0. reverting the anomoly nerf, market only usable if you have docking rights, adding more entry points, etc.

This ^

The crimewatch changes are going to fundamentally change lowsec already... making it a lot safer (since lowsec gatecamps as we know them will be a thing of the past). If they de-incentivize high sec particularly around industry, mining, and missions, as I understand they are planning to do, I think lowsec will get a lot more interesting.

With regards to nullsec, you hit pretty much everything. I might add slowing down fleets/teleportation and maybe player controlled gates. New cap rolls and a specialized dread class of titan killer might be a good idea too...

The market thing would be really nice, for one. It's extremely irritating going to buy a named 10MN MWD and finding all of them in the region have been relisted at 1.5B each.

Than how would I make any money? Twisted

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#78 - 2012-09-05 02:30:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuri Kinnes
Rek Seven wrote:
Tal, don't bother replying if you have nothing intelligent to say, just stick to calling people who don't agree with you "trolls".

To make it clear to anyone else, i want all parts of eve to be an amazing and fun experience but i currently think high sec holds the game back a little in that it instilled a aversion to risk and as evident in this thread, a scene of entitlement.

I agree with those that say low/null sec needs to be improved gameplay wise to attract people but it is not as simple as saying "they should fix it".

In the short term, i think the best way would be to slightly nerf high sec in the form of isk payouts so that more people would get out there and find better ways to make isk and in turn, discover new ways to play the game. Without such a change, i feel people will be content to stay running level 4's at 100 mil + per hour and afk mining all day, to a degree where they may even overlook the changes that CCP have already made or will be making (FW, Dust) in the future.

"holds the game back" - How? Aversion to risk? Soooooo... no pvp in hi sec at all huh?

Or do you just not get that some people have different tastes in what they want out of a game? And how is this thread *any* evidence of a "sense" of entitlement? Clue: It's not.

People who want "better ways to make isk" already do. Exploration being one of them (when I dedicate myself to it I make in excess of 100m/hour exploring - takes time and skills, but it's definitely possible).

What is *wrong* with people being content to run 4's or mine? (AFK mining has it's own risks). As evidenced by the population, there are lots of people who aren't interested in FW. Same with dust. So "overlooking the changes" might just be deliberate. Just so you know, Hi-Sec mission running has been nerfed at least 4 times over the years I can think of. I'm sure that's not all, just what I can remember off the top of my head.

People still stay. Why? They want to... Roll
MIrple wrote:
What they coul do to make Low more attractive is make it so Hi sec stations have a built in tax on everything. Make it so you cant get perfect refine in empire make it so missions are taxed n empire make it so industry is taxed in empire. Then let Low have perfect refine with skills. You can stay in empire but concord is going to tax you for the amount of safety they provie.

11% npc corp tax wasn't enough? Well, guess I called that one. Gotta remember, there are trillions of inhabitants on the planets who concord is (somewhat) protecting as well. Ensuring shipments get in, trade, the market, etc., etc.,

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2012-09-05 02:30:15 UTC
Gogela wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
No amount of buffing can "fix" low-sec. Change it.

Nullsec needs buffed but also fixed. Corp/Alliance controls can be something that would give a indirect boost, also fixing POSs, redoing industry in 0.0. reverting the anomoly nerf, market only usable if you have docking rights, adding more entry points, etc.

This ^

The crimewatch changes are going to fundamentally change lowsec already... making it a lot safer (since lowsec gatecamps as we know them will be a thing of the past). If they de-incentivize high sec particularly around industry, mining, and missions, as I understand they are planning to do, I think lowsec will get a lot more interesting.

With regards to nullsec, you hit pretty much everything. I might add slowing down fleets/teleportation and maybe player controlled gates. New cap rolls and a specialized dread class of titan killer might be a good idea too...

The market thing would be really nice, for one. It's extremely irritating going to buy a named 10MN MWD and finding all of them in the region have been relisted at 1.5B each.

Than how would I make any money? Twisted


*Then

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#80 - 2012-09-05 07:45:31 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
There are people in high-sec that are full-on carebears. They will never leave. But all the other players, and the newer players, have little incentive to leave to the dangerous parts of the galaxy, as certain death awaits. The rewards of these areas of space don't exceed the risk. I personally feel that there should be a natural evolution for players, that after they've learned enough of eve's crazy-massive learning curve, they can take the steps from the safety of high, into low and null. As it stands, this is not working. Lowsec is a barren wasteland, and serves more as a barrer between high and null than anything else. All the players that live there want is a steady flow of victims into their gatecamps. They've become the victims to their own actions, and have taught anyone that comes under their guns that lowsec is not a place to travel.


1) there is no such thing as certain death in lowsec, you just need player skills to survive, and only way to learn them is by doing
2) maybe the problem then is that hisec rewards exceed the risk? Or maybe EVE needs more people who enjoy the risk, not the isk?
3) there are no gate camps, there is only fear of gate camps, which needs to be cleansed with fire from NPC corps

Of course people want fights there, else they would be living in hisec, no?

Currently hisec offers more options for new players, low-end exploration content is only available in hisec, which is blatantly wrong. Furthermore certain 3/10s (hisec sites) can yield much more in loot than lowsec 4/10s.

Quote:
So i definately agree that buffing lowsec could act as a catalyst for highsec players to try breaking their mold. If the reward is great enough, then they might be willing to take the risk. More rewards for highsec players, and more potential targets for the lowsec dwellers. Win, win!
[Controversial addendum] - Adding those new scalling-damage gate-guns into the mix, and now we're taking! Less gatecamps means even more high-sec players in low. Which means even more targets to explode!! Only difference is, you have to hunt them down, instead of the current gatecamp bordom. Leveling the playing field could leave to loads of players having a positive PVP experience in low security space, rather than the standard OMGWTFPWNED experience.

Don't think null should be buffed mind, they're making crap-tons of isk. Though suggestions of changes that get them all fighting over things would be welcome! Cool



Like I said, there really are no gate camps in lowsec. Avoid Amamake and you're golden. And just forget the idea that PVP folk is after soft targets, we prefer fights and not ganks, like hiseccers.

.