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Barge Fairy Tale

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Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#3241 - 2012-09-04 14:28:20 UTC
I'll be honest, when I first so this had 160 pages I was actually hope for a massive story chain that started off with "One day, in the land of New Eden, Minnie the Mining Barge was mining her way happily along, when suddenly...." and then there was 160 pages of people carrying it on post by post into an epic tale.

Instead it some gankers complaining about mining barge buffs and miners being equally as whiny about.... well pretty much everything, including unironically being offended by the fact someone is whining about the fact they can't play the game how they selfishly want to anymore (which is also ironic as thats what most miners do all the time).


1/10, will not read again.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3242 - 2012-09-04 14:35:20 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:

So instead of doing it in a calm, positive way...the lot of you ***** and moan on the forums constantly only making yourself look like cry babies who are angry because they didn't get their way. I have no problem with people suicide ganking miners, you don't tank you deserve to lose your ship... but this is not the way to go about it. Not all of us want unbalanced gameplay.


As opposed to the months of miners BAWing in the forums.

While there might be some bad posters its doesn't change the fact that the mack is doing another ships job as well as its own.
stoicfaux
#3243 - 2012-09-04 14:45:35 UTC
I'll bite, why is it important for mining ships to be suicide-gankable in high sec?


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3244 - 2012-09-04 14:59:26 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
I'll bite, why is it important for mining ships to be suicide-gankable in high sec?




Name the other risks high sec miners face. Its also important because its the only way we have to deal with bots who damage the game for other miners. Everyone else also faces the risk of being ganked if they do something silly like fit no tank so why should miners be exempt?
Pookie McPook
The Whiskers of Kurvi-Tasch
#3245 - 2012-09-04 15:12:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
I'll bite, why is it important for mining ships to be suicide-gankable in high sec?




Name the other risks high sec miners face.



Apart from being ridiculed in these forums?
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#3246 - 2012-09-04 15:19:14 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
I'll bite, why is it important for mining ships to be suicide-gankable in high sec?



Because if they are not suicide gankable, that means they are invincible/untargettable/protected by magic. And this woudl be very very bad for the game.



You should have phased your question as, why should they be reasonably suicide-gankable.

The answer is three fold.

1) because they are not combat ships and should not be used as such. They should however be able to be protected by a bodyguard... too bad not many folks want to sit and watch people mine just in case they are attacked.

2) because it is one of the only risks they face, other than missing a cycle and wasting a few minutes.

3) because one of the trailers from way back showed this (willfully ignores all the other trailers that depict things that do not happen in EVE).
Pookie McPook
The Whiskers of Kurvi-Tasch
#3247 - 2012-09-04 15:24:14 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
I'll bite, why is it important for mining ships to be suicide-gankable in high sec?



Why is it that suicide gankers are targetting any form of mining barge anyway? Apart from any Hulkageddon payout what are they hoping to get out of it? A transport or two of ore? Ooh, a couple of mining drones? If they're just trying to boost their KVD figures most people would look at the kill board and ridicule them for taking advantage of the lowest form of pvp outside baiting noobs.

Storm in a tea cup. Move on.
stoicfaux
#3248 - 2012-09-04 15:42:23 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
I'll bite, why is it important for mining ships to be suicide-gankable in high sec?




Name the other risks high sec miners face. Its also important because its the only way we have to deal with bots who damage the game for other miners. Everyone else also faces the risk of being ganked if they do something silly like fit no tank so why should miners be exempt?



CCP deals with bots. You can report bots to CCP, so there's no need for you to shoot them.

As for the "everyone else also faces the risk of being ganked", other ships (e.g. freighters and loot pinata mission running ships) are normally ganked based on the value of their cargo or modules. Isn't ganking miners more about tears (i.e. griefing) than profit? It's not like you're going to make a mint selling their ore and/or T2 equipment. (OTOH, a miner equipped with deadspace boosters, faction hardeners, ORE lasers, and/or harvester drones would be fair game.)

I'm not seeing the problem. You can still suicide gank a miner but you just need to bring more friends. All that's happened is that suicide-ganking has gone from being a "simple," relatively inexpensive affair (a cheap destroyer or two) and has now become a serious game requiring numbers, planning, and a willingness to take a significant isk loss. So now you're probably ganking because of a personal vendetta, a mercenary contract, a chance at phat lewt, etc., and not as a way to pass the time.

tl;dr - High-sec suicide ganking isn't for casuals anymore.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3249 - 2012-09-04 16:20:40 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Name the other risks high sec miners face. Its also important because its the only way we have to deal with bots who damage the game for other miners. Everyone else also faces the risk of being ganked if they do something silly like fit no tank so why should miners be exempt?


Haven't seen many T2 fit Marauders ganked recently. Have you seen any?
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#3250 - 2012-09-04 16:47:59 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:

So instead of doing it in a calm, positive way...the lot of you ***** and moan on the forums constantly only making yourself look like cry babies who are angry because they didn't get their way. I have no problem with people suicide ganking miners, you don't tank you deserve to lose your ship... but this is not the way to go about it. Not all of us want unbalanced gameplay.


As opposed to the months of miners BAWing in the forums.

While there might be some bad posters its doesn't change the fact that the mack is doing another ships job as well as its own.


Where? I see the occasional complaint about mining but nowhere have I ever seen the ungodly amount of complaining from miners that you guys keep saying happened.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#3251 - 2012-09-04 16:54:53 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:

So instead of doing it in a calm, positive way...the lot of you ***** and moan on the forums constantly only making yourself look like cry babies who are angry because they didn't get their way. I have no problem with people suicide ganking miners, you don't tank you deserve to lose your ship... but this is not the way to go about it. Not all of us want unbalanced gameplay.


As opposed to the months of miners BAWing in the forums.

While there might be some bad posters its doesn't change the fact that the mack is doing another ships job as well as its own.


Where? I see the occasional complaint about mining but nowhere have I ever seen the ungodly amount of complaining from miners that you guys keep saying happened.

For a few weeks, there were at least 20 threads between S&M and GD, probably more in F&I and AH.

All were the same annoying whining, which unfortunately overwhelmed the small bits of legitimacy they did have.

Fortunately, CCP was able to see the small bits (Hulk and Mack being the only ones worth flying) and attempted to fix it.
Good attempt, needs some work (as usual, nothing is perfect).


Then, miners whined about a combination of lack of room for crystals, and the fact that their Cargo Rigged Hulk was no longer king.
Rats
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3252 - 2012-09-04 16:55:19 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
I'll bite, why is it important for mining ships to be suicide-gankable in high sec?




Name the other risks high sec miners face.




Terminal boredom Lol



Tal

I Fought the Law, and the Law Won... Talon Silverhawk
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3253 - 2012-09-04 16:59:52 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
I'll bite, why is it important for mining ships to be suicide-gankable in high sec?




Name the other risks high sec miners face. Its also important because its the only way we have to deal with bots who damage the game for other miners. Everyone else also faces the risk of being ganked if they do something silly like fit no tank so why should miners be exempt?



CCP deals with bots. You can report bots to CCP, so there's no need for you to shoot them.

As for the "everyone else also faces the risk of being ganked", other ships (e.g. freighters and loot pinata mission running ships) are normally ganked based on the value of their cargo or modules. Isn't ganking miners more about tears (i.e. griefing) than profit? It's not like you're going to make a mint selling their ore and/or T2 equipment. (OTOH, a miner equipped with deadspace boosters, faction hardeners, ORE lasers, and/or harvester drones would be fair game.)

I'm not seeing the problem. You can still suicide gank a miner but you just need to bring more friends. All that's happened is that suicide-ganking has gone from being a "simple," relatively inexpensive affair (a cheap destroyer or two) and has now become a serious game requiring numbers, planning, and a willingness to take a significant isk loss. So now you're probably ganking because of a personal vendetta, a mercenary contract, a chance at phat lewt, etc., and not as a way to pass the time.

tl;dr - High-sec suicide ganking isn't for casuals anymore.




CCP bans bots but untill then we kill them to cripple their cash flow. You should have seen the rage on the bot forums about us.

Now, the problem is macks are doing the skiffs job which goes against the whole point of the barge update. The simple fact of life here is the only risk these people will ever face in highsec is people like us but we are hardly going to go around killing macks at a loss. Macks being just about risk free is bad for this game in many ways and will end up hurting miners the most in the long run. Ganking has always been about proft, the tears are simply a bonus and a rather rare one at that and if you think that macks having a bigger tank somehow means we now face a bigger challange you are sadly mistaken. They are just as easy to kill, its simply a question of extra firepower.

Reducing the base tank on the mack to the same level of the hulk would mean you can still tank it to survive but the skiff would provide the better option. The hulk would also be in a better position as people who want max yeild would pick that and not be tempted to get a mack because of the better tank.
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#3254 - 2012-09-04 17:02:19 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:

So instead of doing it in a calm, positive way...the lot of you ***** and moan on the forums constantly only making yourself look like cry babies who are angry because they didn't get their way. I have no problem with people suicide ganking miners, you don't tank you deserve to lose your ship... but this is not the way to go about it. Not all of us want unbalanced gameplay.


As opposed to the months of miners BAWing in the forums.

While there might be some bad posters its doesn't change the fact that the mack is doing another ships job as well as its own.


Where? I see the occasional complaint about mining but nowhere have I ever seen the ungodly amount of complaining from miners that you guys keep saying happened.

For a few weeks, there were at least 20 threads between S&M and GD, probably more in F&I and AH.

All were the same annoying whining, which unfortunately overwhelmed the small bits of legitimacy they did have.

Fortunately, CCP was able to see the small bits (Hulk and Mack being the only ones worth flying) and attempted to fix it.
Good attempt, needs some work (as usual, nothing is perfect).


Then, miners whined about a combination of lack of room for crystals, and the fact that their Cargo Rigged Hulk was no longer king.


The few forum complainers don't speak for the entire playerbase of miners.
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#3255 - 2012-09-04 17:03:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
[quote=stoicfaux]I'll bite, why is it important for mining ships to be suicide-gankable in high sec?




Name the other risks high sec miners face. Its also important because its the only way we have to deal with bots who damage the game for other miners. Everyone else also faces the risk of being ganked if they do something silly like fit no tank so why should miners be exempt?



CCP deals with bots. You can report bots to CCP, so there's no need for you to shoot them.



Botting should be less and less of an issue though, if I recall correctly CCP are now doing hardware bans...which is quite a good way to go about it.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3256 - 2012-09-04 17:03:32 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:

So instead of doing it in a calm, positive way...the lot of you ***** and moan on the forums constantly only making yourself look like cry babies who are angry because they didn't get their way. I have no problem with people suicide ganking miners, you don't tank you deserve to lose your ship... but this is not the way to go about it. Not all of us want unbalanced gameplay.


As opposed to the months of miners BAWing in the forums.

While there might be some bad posters its doesn't change the fact that the mack is doing another ships job as well as its own.


Where? I see the occasional complaint about mining but nowhere have I ever seen the ungodly amount of complaining from miners that you guys keep saying happened.


From the start of this year we had 8 months of constant miner rage over how they were helpless. It started right after the gallente ice interdiction and then hit the roof in the BAT Country caldari ice interdiction. Hulkageddon then added more fuel to the fire but it was these first two events that sparked it all off. We were the ones who figured out how to gank miners for a profit, something most miners and their supporters still cannot understand.

For 8 months I posted fits and tactics for miners to use that would save them. They didnt listen, they still are not listening.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#3257 - 2012-09-04 17:08:05 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:

So instead of doing it in a calm, positive way...the lot of you ***** and moan on the forums constantly only making yourself look like cry babies who are angry because they didn't get their way. I have no problem with people suicide ganking miners, you don't tank you deserve to lose your ship... but this is not the way to go about it. Not all of us want unbalanced gameplay.


As opposed to the months of miners BAWing in the forums.

While there might be some bad posters its doesn't change the fact that the mack is doing another ships job as well as its own.


Where? I see the occasional complaint about mining but nowhere have I ever seen the ungodly amount of complaining from miners that you guys keep saying happened.

For a few weeks, there were at least 20 threads between S&M and GD, probably more in F&I and AH.

All were the same annoying whining, which unfortunately overwhelmed the small bits of legitimacy they did have.

Fortunately, CCP was able to see the small bits (Hulk and Mack being the only ones worth flying) and attempted to fix it.
Good attempt, needs some work (as usual, nothing is perfect).


Then, miners whined about a combination of lack of room for crystals, and the fact that their Cargo Rigged Hulk was no longer king.


The few forum complainers don't speak for the entire playerbase of miners.

Of course not.

Just like Ank did not speak for the entirety of high sec. She still made us all look like morons.



Perception is key.



Also, the complaints were not just on the forums. Help channel was filled with whining.
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#3258 - 2012-09-04 17:09:07 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:

Of course not.

Just like Ank did not speak for the entirety of high sec. She still made us all look like morons.



Perception is key.



Also, the complaints were not just on the forums. Help channel was filled with whining.


Help channel is always full of that.
betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3259 - 2012-09-04 17:09:56 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
I'll bite, why is it important for mining ships to be suicide-gankable in high sec?




Name the other risks high sec miners face. Its also important because its the only way we have to deal with bots who damage the game for other miners. Everyone else also faces the risk of being ganked if they do something silly like fit no tank so why should miners be exempt?



They are still gankable, and they would still be gankable if you doubled their tanks again.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3260 - 2012-09-04 17:13:58 UTC
betoli wrote:




They are still gankable, and they would still be gankable if you doubled their tanks again.


Ganking them isnt the problem, its just as simple, the problem is its not profitable to do so. Not being profitable to gank is the best tank of them all.