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Barge Fairy Tale

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3221 - 2012-09-04 10:27:36 UTC
Vigilant wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
Adapt or die Heir Wilkens! Quit whining for damm sakes Attention

Every single person who says this in response to what we have to say about this patch is a damn hypocrite and they know it.



Yah Heir takes so much pride in what he says, he uses ALT to do itRoll

He is a freaking ganking b*tch and wants easy targets, nough said. Minus, goto to null sec. and he can kill all day long, wait thats not easy Shocked

Wait, are you saying I'm a Herr Wilkus alt?
L O L

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#3222 - 2012-09-04 11:32:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
Pipa Porto wrote:
1. If a miner is atk and paying attention, they don't need any tank to survive suicide ganking. Why should you be almost perfectly safe while you're in space, in an exhumer not designed to be the safe one, and not at the keyboard?

2. The time between needing to be at the keyboard for an AFK fit Mackinaw is about 45 minutes. Ice roids don't deplete.


1. To survive a suicide gank, sure! For a non-PvP experienced player, it is pretty hard to predict an incoming s-gank... by the time most of them notice, it is already too late... we are talking about seconds here.

2. What are we talking about here (a question I find asking myself on a regular basis when this topic comes up)? Ice mining is NOT the most common form of mining (especially in highsec *dah*) and it is NOT what the Mack is used for exclusively since the buff, not by a long shot...

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Pipa Porto
#3223 - 2012-09-04 12:25:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Shalua Rui wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
1. If a miner is atk and paying attention, they don't need any tank to survive suicide ganking. Why should you be almost perfectly safe while you're in space, in an exhumer not designed to be the safe one, and not at the keyboard?

2. The time between needing to be at the keyboard for an AFK fit Mackinaw is about 45 minutes. Ice roids don't deplete.


1. To survive a suicide gank, sure! For a non-PvP experienced player, it is pretty hard to predict an incoming s-gank... by the time most of them notice, it is already too late... we are talking about seconds here.

2. What are we talking about here (a question I find asking myself on a regular basis when this topic comes up)? Ice mining is NOT the most common form of mining (especially in highsec *dah*) and it is NOT what the Mack is used for exclusively since the buff, not by a long shot...


1. Then they learn. To be successful in EVE you have to have some understanding of mechanics that affect you.

2. Ice mining is where the Mack's AFKness truly shines. That's not saying that it's not also great for semi-afk Ore mining. I never said it was the most common use of the Mack nor did I say that it's the exclusive use for the Mack.

Why are you expecting the most convenient Exhumer (least hauling/attention needed) to also keep you safe while you're not looking at the computer?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#3224 - 2012-09-04 12:54:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
Pipa Porto wrote:
Why are you expecting the most convenient Exhumer (least hauling/attention needed) to also keep you safe while you're not looking at the computer?


Out of the same reason why you expect your T2 combat ship to keep you save while you do PvP/run missions... it's my playstyle. I invested 60+ days to just efficiently fly and fit the ship, and I am still skilling to get better at everything else surrounding mining.

So, please forgive me if I cannot have pitty on people whining because they can't simply gang gank me with characters/ships they didn't even invest half the time or money in, I did... Blink

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3225 - 2012-09-04 13:36:43 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Why are you expecting the most convenient Exhumer (least hauling/attention needed) to also keep you safe while you're not looking at the computer?


Out of the same reason why you expect your T2 combat ship to keep you save while you do PvP/run missions... it's my playstyle. I invested 60+ days to just efficiently fly and fit the ship, and I am still skilling to get better at everything else surrounding mining.

So, please forgive me if I cannot have pitty on people whining because they can't simply gang gank me with characters/ships they didn't even invest half the time or money in, I did... Blink


You will still be able to do what you are doing now after the macks base tank gets brought in line with the hulks.
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#3226 - 2012-09-04 13:41:59 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Why are you expecting the most convenient Exhumer (least hauling/attention needed) to also keep you safe while you're not looking at the computer?


Out of the same reason why you expect your T2 combat ship to keep you save while you do PvP/run missions... it's my playstyle. I invested 60+ days to just efficiently fly and fit the ship, and I am still skilling to get better at everything else surrounding mining.

So, please forgive me if I cannot have pitty on people whining because they can't simply gang gank me with characters/ships they didn't even invest half the time or money in, I did... Blink


You will still be able to do what you are doing now after the macks base tank gets brought in line with the hulks.


Id be ok with the hitpoints being brought down to that level if they gave us more CPU so we didn't need to waste a slot with a cpu upgrade or rig.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#3227 - 2012-09-04 13:44:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
baltec1 wrote:
You will still be able to do what you are doing now after the macks base tank gets brought in line with the hulks.


What do you mean by "brought in line", exactly? The way I see it, the exhumers have already been balanced with all other T2(!) ships... bringing their tank down again would throw off that balance again... and all because of players barking that have little to nill understanding of mining.

I didn't see miners complain... nor did I see CCP admit they did go overboard with the buff... or did I miss something there?

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Frying Doom
#3228 - 2012-09-04 13:47:58 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
You will still be able to do what you are doing now after the macks base tank gets brought in line with the hulks.


What do you mean by "brought in line", exactly? The way I see it, the exhumers have already been balanced with all other T2(!) ships... bringing their tank down again would throw off that balance again... and all because of players barking that have little to nill understanding of mining.

I didn't see miners complain... nor did I see CCP admit they did go overboard with the buff... or did I miss something there?

Nope just gankers wishing for easy targets againSmile

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3229 - 2012-09-04 13:48:22 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:


Id be ok with the hitpoints being brought down to that level if they gave us more CPU so we didn't need to waste a slot with a cpu upgrade or rig.

They already got a CPU buff. There is more than enough room for a good tank now.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3230 - 2012-09-04 13:50:24 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Shalua Rui wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
You will still be able to do what you are doing now after the macks base tank gets brought in line with the hulks.


What do you mean by "brought in line", exactly? The way I see it, the exhumers have already been balanced with all other T2(!) ships... bringing their tank down again would throw off that balance again... and all because of players barking that have little to nill understanding of mining.

I didn't see miners complain... nor did I see CCP admit they did go overboard with the buff... or did I miss something there?


Of course you dont see miners complain. Why would they? This is like handing vagabond pilots back the ability to speed tank missiles.

The problem here is the mack is doing the skiffs job as well as its own. Brining the base tank down to the level the hulk is on would mean the skiff gets to do its job. Both the hulk and the mack would still have the same base tank as a heavy assault ship too and the CPU upgrade means they can fit a good tank too.
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#3231 - 2012-09-04 13:51:58 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
You will still be able to do what you are doing now after the macks base tank gets brought in line with the hulks.


What do you mean by "brought in line", exactly? The way I see it, the exhumers have already been balanced with all other T2(!) ships... bringing their tank down again would throw off that balance again... and all because of players barking that have little to nill understanding of mining.

I didn't see miners complain... nor did I see CCP admit they did go overboard with the buff... or did I miss something there?

Nope just gankers wishing for easy targets againSmile


Thats pretty much all I see from them. I recently saw a few destroyers gank a mackinaw in an ice field, can't remember how many it was either 2 or 3 of them(he had no midslots) so it is still clearly easy enough to get the foolish ones who dont fit a tank, which is the ones they were going after anyway pre patch so Im not really seeing the issue.
Our profession gives us a huge selection of 6 ships, we deserve higher ehp in my opinion. We are not invincible, but it makes sense for the highest end mining ships to have more hitpoints.
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#3232 - 2012-09-04 13:52:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
You will still be able to do what you are doing now after the macks base tank gets brought in line with the hulks.


What do you mean by "brought in line", exactly? The way I see it, the exhumers have already been balanced with all other T2(!) ships... bringing their tank down again would throw off that balance again... and all because of players barking that have little to nill understanding of mining.

I didn't see miners complain... nor did I see CCP admit they did go overboard with the buff... or did I miss something there?


Of course you dont see miners complain. Why would they?

The problem here is the mack is going the skiffs job as well as its own. Brining the base tank down to the level the hulk is on would mean the skiff gets to do its job. Bot the hulk and the mack would still have the same base tank as a heavy assault ship too.


You see what the problem is here? Heavy Assault ships need a buff...not nerfing mining ships. And since CCP are rebalancing ships, I am sure that will happen eventually :)
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#3233 - 2012-09-04 13:57:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Corina Jarr
Shalua Rui wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
You will still be able to do what you are doing now after the macks base tank gets brought in line with the hulks.


What do you mean by "brought in line", exactly? The way I see it, the exhumers have already been balanced with all other T2(!) ships... bringing their tank down again would throw off that balance again... and all because of players barking that have little to nill understanding of mining.

I didn't see miners complain... nor did I see CCP admit they did go overboard with the buff... or did I miss something there?

Miners complained. A lot. mostly that the ships didn't get buffed enough. Or about crystals.

As it is, there is no reason in HS to fly a Skiff (which was the whole point of the changes, to make each one useful). It is already not profitable to gank a 2MLU tanked Mack in a .5 system. In a 1.0, it takes more isk to kill the Mack than the Mack costs.

The only people who will gank Macks will be those who don't care about isk (or those new to ganking who don't understand it yet).
Little Edit: this of course assumes people aren't morons when fitting their Macks, which we know is not the case. But it is not CCP's job to try to patch stupid.

If however, CCP brought the base HP of the Mack in line with the Hulk, then the Skiff would have its intended purpose. Those who wanted to be near AFK: Skiff. Those who wanted to mine solo: Mack.



Me... I'll still be playing with my old Proc from 2 years ago. It looks nicer than all the others.
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#3234 - 2012-09-04 14:03:56 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
You will still be able to do what you are doing now after the macks base tank gets brought in line with the hulks.


What do you mean by "brought in line", exactly? The way I see it, the exhumers have already been balanced with all other T2(!) ships... bringing their tank down again would throw off that balance again... and all because of players barking that have little to nill understanding of mining.

I didn't see miners complain... nor did I see CCP admit they did go overboard with the buff... or did I miss something there?

Miners complained. A lot. mostly that the ships didn't get buffed enough. Or about crystals.

As it is, there is no reason in HS to fly a Skiff (which was the whole point of the changes, to make each one useful). It is already not profitable to gank a 2MLU tanked Mack in a .5 system. In a 1.0, it takes more isk to kill the Mack than the Mack costs.

The only people who will gank Macks will be those who don't care about isk (or those new to ganking who don't understand it yet).
Little Edit: this of course assumes people aren't morons when fitting their Macks, which we know is not the case. But it is not CCP's job to try to patch stupid.

If however, CCP brought the base HP of the Mack in line with the Hulk, then the Skiff would have its intended purpose. Those who wanted to be near AFK: Skiff. Those who wanted to mine solo: Mack.





Me... I'll still be playing with my old Proc from 2 years ago. It looks nicer than all the others.


I keep seeing people saying things like that..."nobody uses anything but the Mackinaw" yet for the most part I only see them in ice belts which is no different than it was pre patch. I am still seeing plenty of hulks, covetors, and Ive seen a ton of skiffs.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3235 - 2012-09-04 14:06:57 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:

You see what the problem is here?


Yep. Miners as a whole are the most useless people in the galaxy. They would rather have an imbalanced ship lineup that provides a ship that does it all than have to make choices on both what ship to pick and how to fit them.

Hell, they didn't even bother the test these ships on sisi, that was left to the "evil gankers" who tried to get all barges to be equally usefull. CCP very nearly got it right, all they have to do is tone down the macks base HP to the level of the hulk and its more or less perfect.
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#3236 - 2012-09-04 14:09:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:

You see what the problem is here?


Yep. Miners as a whole are the most useless people in the galaxy. They would rather have an imbalanced ship lineup that provides a ship that does it all than have to make choices on both what ship to pick and how to fit them.

Hell, they didn't even bother the test these ships on sisi, that was left to the "evil gankers" who tried to get all barges to be equally usefull. CCP very nearly got it right, all they have to do is tone down the macks base HP to the level of the hulk and its more or less perfect.


So instead of doing it in a calm, positive way...the lot of you ***** and moan on the forums constantly only making yourself look like cry babies who are angry because they didn't get their way. I have no problem with people suicide ganking miners, you don't tank you deserve to lose your ship... but this is not the way to go about it. Not all of us want unbalanced gameplay.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#3237 - 2012-09-04 14:14:20 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
You will still be able to do what you are doing now after the macks base tank gets brought in line with the hulks.


What do you mean by "brought in line", exactly? The way I see it, the exhumers have already been balanced with all other T2(!) ships... bringing their tank down again would throw off that balance again... and all because of players barking that have little to nill understanding of mining.

I didn't see miners complain... nor did I see CCP admit they did go overboard with the buff... or did I miss something there?

Miners complained. A lot. mostly that the ships didn't get buffed enough. Or about crystals.

As it is, there is no reason in HS to fly a Skiff (which was the whole point of the changes, to make each one useful). It is already not profitable to gank a 2MLU tanked Mack in a .5 system. In a 1.0, it takes more isk to kill the Mack than the Mack costs.

The only people who will gank Macks will be those who don't care about isk (or those new to ganking who don't understand it yet).
Little Edit: this of course assumes people aren't morons when fitting their Macks, which we know is not the case. But it is not CCP's job to try to patch stupid.

If however, CCP brought the base HP of the Mack in line with the Hulk, then the Skiff would have its intended purpose. Those who wanted to be near AFK: Skiff. Those who wanted to mine solo: Mack.





Me... I'll still be playing with my old Proc from 2 years ago. It looks nicer than all the others.


I keep seeing people saying things like that..."nobody uses anything but the Mackinaw" yet for the most part I only see them in ice belts which is no different than it was pre patch. I am still seeing plenty of hulks, covetors, and Ive seen a ton of skiffs.

I never said nobody flew anything but any ship.
I said there is no reason to.

Other than PvP, there is no reason to use a Skiff over a Mack.


However, I am glad that people are using the Skiff despite this. It means the change was at least a partial success.
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#3238 - 2012-09-04 14:16:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Yokai Mitsuhide
Corina Jarr wrote:

I never said nobody flew anything but any ship.
I said there is no reason to.

Other than PvP, there is no reason to use a Skiff over a Mack.


However, I am glad that people are using the Skiff despite this. It means the change was at least a partial success.


There is plenty of reason, I use a skiff because it lets me have 100k ehp, and 15k ore hold. It's a safe ship to mine in.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#3239 - 2012-09-04 14:21:03 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:

I never said nobody flew anything but any ship.
I said there is no reason to.

Other than PvP, there is no reason to use a Skiff over a Mack.


However, I am glad that people are using the Skiff despite this. It means the change was at least a partial success.


There is plenty of reason, I use a skiff because it lets me have 100k ehp, and 15k ore hold. It's a safe ship to mine in.

Right. And with my 35k ehp Mack, I mine more than you, have a larger hold than you, and am safe from anything you would be.

Because anything that could gank me would not be for profit, but for fun, and 35k or 100k makes no difference when it comes to fun.
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#3240 - 2012-09-04 14:25:31 UTC
Best mining Ship?

Ferox :D

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.