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Specialized Ships(pilgrim/curse/etc) vs new Battery behavior
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Othran
Route One
#21 - 2012-09-03 17:21:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
The problem is that the cap battery doesn't do anything well.

Yes it boosts cap and in some cases can get you cap-stable - even on ships you'd think it wouldn't.

Yes it mitigates against neuting, but not as much as a cap booster.

The thing is that the cap booster helps you with mwd, weapons, ecm - anything that eats cap.

The cap battery is only better in very limited situations with specific ships.

Cap booster is still the preferred midslot mod over the battery.

Edit - I really would like the battery to be better but reflecting neut drain isn't the way to do it. Massively increasing the cap storage AND the PG it uses is the way to go. ie much more cap but so much PG you need a new fit, its not just a simple swap between cap booster and battery.
Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-09-03 17:57:51 UTC
Kitanga wrote:
recently a change was made to how capacitor batteries behave. see below...

"Provides defense against Energy Leech and Energy Neutralizer effects."

i want to open a discussion about this change and how it affects specialized ships such as the pilgrim/curse, legion, cruor, sentinel (there maybe be a few more)

these ships have a bonus to "energy vampire and energy neutralizer transfer amount". and some of these ships take a good amount of training to fly.

i feel that these ships, especially those that take a while to train such as the curse and pilgrim, should be immune to this new battery behavior. much like the way a heavy interdictor is immune to the affect of a warp core stabilizer if the dictor points the ship with this mod fitted (not talking about dropping a bubble).

the fact that a tech 1 battery can effectively cripple a pilgrims behavior of neuting a target just seems unfair. this was my personal experience recently in tackling a target in lowsec. i found myself cap-less very quickly. I found this to be frustrating mainly because i spent the time to train for a pilgrim, and now find it to be somewhat of a crippled ship in that its bonus attribute is strongly hindered by a tech 1 mod that anyone can use.

TLDR; i am proposing that specialized ships be immune to the new battery behavior.

i am hoping that a dev will read this post and provide his/her opinion on the matter.

Thank you
Kitanga


Everything must have a counter. This counters neutralisers. Very few peopel will actually fit tehm so this will actually happen very rarely, but it is right that they are available.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
#23 - 2012-09-03 18:15:13 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
Kitanga wrote:
recently a change was made to how capacitor batteries behave. see below...

"Provides defense against Energy Leech and Energy Neutralizer effects."

i want to open a discussion about this change and how it affects specialized ships such as the pilgrim/curse, legion, cruor, sentinel (there maybe be a few more)

these ships have a bonus to "energy vampire and energy neutralizer transfer amount". and some of these ships take a good amount of training to fly.

i feel that these ships, especially those that take a while to train such as the curse and pilgrim, should be immune to this new battery behavior. much like the way a heavy interdictor is immune to the affect of a warp core stabilizer if the dictor points the ship with this mod fitted (not talking about dropping a bubble).

the fact that a tech 1 battery can effectively cripple a pilgrims behavior of neuting a target just seems unfair. this was my personal experience recently in tackling a target in lowsec. i found myself cap-less very quickly. I found this to be frustrating mainly because i spent the time to train for a pilgrim, and now find it to be somewhat of a crippled ship in that its bonus attribute is strongly hindered by a tech 1 mod that anyone can use.

TLDR; i am proposing that specialized ships be immune to the new battery behavior.

i am hoping that a dev will read this post and provide his/her opinion on the matter.

Thank you
Kitanga


Everything must have a counter. This counters neutralisers. Very few peopel will actually fit tehm so this will actually happen very rarely, but it is right that they are available.



thank you for your opinion but i feel you missed the point i am trying to make. sure maybe it should have a counter. but i do not feel it should be on a mod that also provides other benefits. make the neutralizer counter mod like ECCM mods. specialized to the task. or add a secondary set of 'batteries' that have this new attribute that also have a much reduced benefit as a battery, and in turn remove the attribute from the current batteries.


suggestion to CCP : its a long time to train for a pilgrim/curse, and the pilgrim is fun to fly solo. leave it alone. Straight Let it not be countered by a tech 1 non-specialized mod.
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
#24 - 2012-09-03 18:43:26 UTC
i can only surmise at the lack of positive support to my argument that:
A) that only high-sec care-bear types actually participate in these forums
OR
B) only 3 or 4 people in all of eve fly i pilgrim/curse (including me).



eve is, at its core, all about PVP. if CCP wants to make high-sec a panacea for the care-bear types in order to boost subscriptions then fine, go for it. a huge step in that direction was killing off wardecs, and boosting exhumer ships. so be happy you care-bear types CCP is listening.

But please CCP do not Nerf PVP centric ships. especially in offhand hope they don't notice ways.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#25 - 2012-09-03 18:58:32 UTC
I'd rather fit a cap injector and that's even more effective versus your failboat.

I can't imagine ever capping myself out in a Pilgrim.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#26 - 2012-09-04 08:10:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Danny John-Peter
Kitanga wrote:
i can only surmise at the lack of positive support to my argument that:
A) that only high-sec care-bear types actually participate in these forums
OR
B) only 3 or 4 people in all of eve fly i pilgrim/curse (including me).



eve is, at its core, all about PVP. if CCP wants to make high-sec a panacea for the care-bear types in order to boost subscriptions then fine, go for it. a huge step in that direction was killing off wardecs, and boosting exhumer ships. so be happy you care-bear types CCP is listening.

But please CCP do not Nerf PVP centric ships. especially in offhand hope they don't notice ways.


I fly the Curse, I find the Pilgrim less useful but still own one and do occasionally make use, the Cap Battery is not in any way a viable counter to either ship, the reflect amount is so small.

If your that concerned refit your Curse/Pilgrim to injector set ups, I prefer injected set ups anyways myself, with a good amount of cap management its rare you have to inject but its nice to have the option.

Ed; and just because we disagree don't assume we lack knowledge on the subject, makes you look like a bit of an arse, can't actually say you seem to have any kills in either ship, or many at all :/
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-09-04 10:55:54 UTC
MIrple wrote:
everything has a counter


Cloaking Devices ?
Wilhelm Riley
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-09-04 11:09:41 UTC
If Cap Batteries are the counter to Neuts then what is the counter to Cap Batteries? Shocked
Flamewave
Crimson Moon Society
#29 - 2012-09-04 11:15:14 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
MIrple wrote:
everything has a counter


Cloaking Devices ?

Smartbombs.

Some things ISK can't buy. For everything else, there's Jita.

YouTube
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#30 - 2012-09-04 12:56:11 UTC
Flamewave wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
MIrple wrote:
everything has a counter


Cloaking Devices ?

Smartbombs.



Interceptors, with SEBOs
Signal11th
#31 - 2012-09-04 13:06:09 UTC
Xiode wrote:
Got 105 kills and 0 losses with my Pilgrim this month. I didn't encounter anyone using a battery though.



Was that on an alt as Xiode only seems to have 52 kills ever.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Signal11th
#32 - 2012-09-04 13:06:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Kitty Bear wrote:
MIrple wrote:
everything has a counter


Cloaking Devices ?



The fact you can't use anything whilst you have it on? Cloaks are self countering anyway, in order to do anything apart from watch you have to turn it off.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Lharanai
Fools of the Blue Oyster
#33 - 2012-09-04 15:14:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Lharanai
Sorry, you made a good opening (like: are the changes good, discuss) and then you ruined it (like I want that it stays how it is)

to quote a quote so often heard from "assumed" pvplers to socalled carebears:

"adapt ot die"

and before you try to insult me I am a frigging carebear, like you

Seriously, don't take me serious, I MEAN IT...seriously
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-09-04 15:20:13 UTC
Your defense against the reflected neut is the cap booster you should have fitted to the ship.

I actually think that the refection affect is inadequate and should be boosted.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
#35 - 2012-09-04 15:54:22 UTC
Lharanai wrote:
Sorry, you made a good opening (like: are the changes good, discuss) and then you ruined it (like I want that it stays how it is)

to quote a quote so often heard from "assumed" pvplers to socalled carebears:

"adapt ot die"

and before you try to insult me I am a frigging carebear, like you


i have insulted no one. but the insults come this way... whatever. obviously this issue is not getting any traction...
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-09-04 16:06:36 UTC
Every EWar (well, except target painting, but there are reasons for that) there has a hardware counter that you can fit to your ship. What's wrong with it when applied to neuting, thing that can be met everywhere and is pretty effective in certain environements?

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
#37 - 2012-09-04 16:09:55 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Every EWar (well, except target painting, but there are reasons for that) there has a hardware counter that you can fit to your ship. What's wrong with it when applied to neuting, thing that can be met everywhere and is pretty effective in certain environements?



nothing wrong with it if the neut is on a hurricane for example. my point was specialized ships should be immune. because the mod is not specialized like ECCM mods.

but continue with your 'fit a cap injector' responses...
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#38 - 2012-09-04 16:17:53 UTC
Should we make the Pilgram immune to tracking computers or tracking enhancers also. Or the Arazu immun to Sebos. Your argument is bad.

Sorry for spelling tablet is a pain.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-09-04 16:18:43 UTC
should the jammers on a falcon be able to igone the ECCM on the enemy ship?

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#40 - 2012-09-04 16:29:55 UTC
Clearly Rapiers should be immune to MWDs then.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
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