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Buy order scam?

Author
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#1 - 2012-09-04 09:10:21 UTC
I wanted to transfer some money on my alt, but its still on a trial account so I can't give the isk to the other character.. I went to a remote station and placed a sell order for a single single item with a very specific value. When I went to buy it on my alt, the money was sent to someone else. How did this happen?
Kermange Atruin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-09-04 09:18:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Kermange Atruin
You have to have highest buy order to receive isk. Also if there are two orders at same price, older gets filled first.

Also, just as I read a while ago someone had confused how buy orders work, hopefully that didn't happen to you: instead of selling stuff, you actually bought something.

EDIT: In fact, above was commented when not properly thought what you said. But in essense, if there was some sell order with lower price than yours, it got filled first. In selling cheapest go first. So if there was sell order of 100 isk and you put 200isk order, and tried buying stuff with 200isk, that 100isk gets filled first.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#3 - 2012-09-04 09:21:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Riot Girl
No, I made a sell order for a very specific amount. That was the exact amount that was subtracted from the account of my other character. The money was sent to someone else who just happened to have a sell order for the exact same amount in the exact same station in 0.5 space. His character was offline.
Mu-Shi Ai
Hosono House
#4 - 2012-09-04 09:32:59 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
No, I made a sell order for a very specific amount. That was the exact amount that was subtracted from the account of my other character. The money was sent to someone else who just happened to have a sell order for the exact same amount in the exact same station in 0.5 space. His character was offline.


The other person's order was put up before yours, then. The fact that they were offline is irrelevant (sales happen whether you're in-game or not).
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#5 - 2012-09-04 09:35:56 UTC
So this guy, by pure coincidence, happened to be selling a single Republic Fleet EMP S for 32,000,733 isk in a dead system in 0.5 space where the only other sell order is for 699.97 isk?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#6 - 2012-09-04 09:43:50 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
No, I made a sell order for a very specific amount. That was the exact amount that was subtracted from the account of my other character. The money was sent to someone else who just happened to have a sell order for the exact same amount in the exact same station in 0.5 space. His character was offline.



Just to make sure you understand:

The cheapest order is always filled first. Regardless of the price that you set.

If I'm selling something for 100 isk, and you're selling for 101 isk, people will always buy from me.

If they set the price they'll pay as 101, I'll get that 101 isk.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Ji Sama
Akira Industries
#7 - 2012-09-04 09:47:22 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
So this guy, by pure coincidence, happened to be selling a single Republic Fleet EMP S for 32,000,733 isk in a dead system in 0.5 space where the only other sell order is for 699.97 isk?


You just bought 1 piece of ammo, from the seller with the 699.97 order, however you paid him 32M ISK for it.
Mu-Shi Ai
Hosono House
#8 - 2012-09-04 09:48:21 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
So this guy, by pure coincidence, happened to be selling a single Republic Fleet EMP S for 32,000,733 isk in a dead system in 0.5 space where the only other sell order is for 699.97 isk?


You can't buy from a specific sell order, just like you can't sell to a specific buy order. The money goes to whichever order is "on top" (in the case of sell orders, it would be the lowest priced one). The thing is, the order that you try to buy from is the price you'll end up paying to the person who's "on top." So basically you gave that guy 32m ISK because he already had a lower sell order up. That's how the market mechanics work. It's not a scam.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#9 - 2012-09-04 09:50:58 UTC
Really? That doesn't even make sense... Why would it take 32m from my account to pay for an item which is only being sold for 699?
Kyshonuba
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-09-04 10:05:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyshonuba
thats the way the broker system works ...

Kermange Atruin wrote:
You have to have highest buy order to receive isk. Also if there are two orders at same price, older gets filled first.


Concrete: the broker takes the money and gives it to the cheapest sell-order. In other words ... that guy sold Republic Fleet EMP S probaply for the normal price, but the broker gave him (your) 32,000,733 ISK .
I order to to buy an overprized item from your trial account alt you need to find an item at a specific station with no (cheaper)sell orders up .
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#11 - 2012-09-04 10:06:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Riot Girl
Yeah okay, thanks. Where do I find this broker? I'm going to smash his pots and pans up.
Kermange Atruin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-09-04 10:11:37 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Really? That doesn't even make sense... Why would it take 32m from my account to pay for an item which is only being sold for 699?


It happens quite often for me that I get paid much higher amount than I'm asking. Anything above asking price is just nice bonus. And as it was said, you give money to broker, which then passes it on to acquire items you were buying.

I haven't tried or thought of this, but you'd have much better chance passing money by checking really slowly moving item and then putting sell order with quite low amount of money and then buy it way overpriced. If someone buys your item, money isn't lost. However you should be sure that your order remains when you do your own buy, or else you're once again buying someone else's item, giving them your money.
Grendaran
Celestial Tomb
#13 - 2012-09-04 12:41:20 UTC

It works like this

Item 1 listed for 10 isk
Item 2 listed for 100 isk
item 3 listed for 1000 isk

Buyer highlights item 3 in the sale list, when they press BUY

the game auto fills buy order form with 1000 isk, but retrieves the item from seller of item 1,

sends 1000 isk to the person selling item 1 for 10 isk

I say this is a bug really.

can be replicated easily

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#14 - 2012-09-04 12:42:27 UTC
It seems to obvious to be a bug. I'd say it's more likely just a very bad game mechanic.
Ji Sama
Akira Industries
#15 - 2012-09-04 13:25:06 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
It seems to obvious to be a bug. I'd say it's more likely just a very bad game mechanic.


Its working as intended, lowest sell order always get the sale, no matter which buy order purchaser selects.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#16 - 2012-09-04 15:06:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Ji Sama wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
It seems to obvious to be a bug. I'd say it's more likely just a very bad game mechanic.


Its working as intended, lowest sell order always get the sale, no matter which buy order purchaser selects.


Confirming that this is working as intended. There are game mechanics that prevent you from transferring isk to a alt on a trial account. Trial accounts can not use contracts, and can not be sent isk. What you are trying to do is work around that mechanic. This method of running market transactions does seem odd, but is meant to prevent this type of workaround you are trying to do. There are ways of doing what you are attempting, but it takes a little more thought and planing than you have put into it.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#17 - 2012-09-04 15:33:04 UTC
Yeah, it requires that the player knows to go to a station where no-one is selling stupid faction ammo. What a dumb working as intended thing!
Sun Win
#18 - 2012-09-04 15:34:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Sun Win
Not a bug. You guys just don't understand how a commodities market works. Buy and sell orders are not like retail stores. They are offers to buy and sell generic commodities.

When you clicked on a buy order and hit 'buy' you didn't say "I want THAT republic fleet shell please" you said "I am willing to pay 32 million ISK for a bullet. Who wants to sell me one?"

Now, lots of people are willing to sell you a bullet for 32 mil, so the market has to decide who gets first dibs. The answer is: Whoever was more eager to sell, AKA, the person with the lowest sell price. Lucky them, they found a buyer willing to pay more than their offer price.

Why would we want a mechanic like this? Let's say you were a war logistician and you wanted to stock up on bullets. You need 1,000,000 of them, but no one is selling that many. There's 1,000 for 6.98, 278,0000 for 6.99, 10 for 7.00 11,000 for 7.01 and so on. You could manually make an order for each price point, or you could determine that your time is not worth the savings and just put up a buy order for 1,000,000 at 7.50 and get all the ammo in one fell swoop.

If you wanna buy and sell from specific people, you need to make a deal with them, using the contracts. If you are on a trial, you can't do this, so you'll have to find something cleverer to do...
Doddy
Excidium.
#19 - 2012-09-04 16:33:07 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Really? That doesn't even make sense... Why would it take 32m from my account to pay for an item which is only being sold for 699?


Why would a seller not take 32mil for something he was selling for 699?
Tom Hagen
Twilight Empire
#20 - 2012-09-04 17:17:21 UTC
As a lot of other people are saying, it is a broker system and not a retail store, and it is working as intended.
Sorry for your loss. Or should I be happy for that other dude who had his sell order up.... I don't know Shocked

But please, tell us. Are you poor now? Twisted
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